Hard starting Yamato 102

[26V]

Bill,
If you do a quick search for yamato fuel pump you will find a lot of info. threads like this one
https://hydroracer.net/forums/showthr...mato+fuel+pump

Many races swear by them, some will not run them, LOL go figure. Have a good time and be safe!

[BillCNC]

Bill,
If you do a quick search for yamato fuel pump you will find a lot of info. threads like this one
https://hydroracer.net/forums/showthr...mato+fuel+pump

Many races swear by them, some will not run them, LOL go figure. Have a good time and be safe!

Thanks, ... I'll call BTM.

[BillCNC]

Here is a video of by body position for starting. The starting rope has 2 turns on the motor, ... should it be more?

http://youtu.be/Gzjb3MKtbD8

I have the throttle set 2 clicks of the deadman throttle for starting. I have it set so it will not idle, and I also have a kill switch setup.

[bill van steenwyk]

Stanley Henderson's suggestion for "B-12" should help a lot. I used it for quite a number of years as do a number of other PRO racers. When a PRO engine loads up (too rich) from the castor based oils used by some, they can be "cranky", no pun intended, and the B-12 normally helped. Also good for cleaning the plugs if the engine gets loaded up.

Stan's spelling was a little off, it is Berryman. It has lots of very easy to ignite components in it. Don't make the mistake of flooding the engine out with this as it only takes a short squirt or so right in the carb vernturi. Maybe try it out near the bank a few times so you know what to expect, and how much to use. The long rope is a good idea also as it will allow you to be further forward in the boat and less tower housing/load on prop problems.

[bill van steenwyk]

Another suggestion for "practice" starting

If you live a long way from water, or any other problem prevents you from getting on/to a lake, and your neighbors do not object to a little noise occasionally, take a 55 gal drum, cut the top out of it and make yourself a "test tank" Put the motor over the side and tighten the clamps, (2x4 makes a good backup board/transom substitute) and pull the string.

You should be able to duplicate the load on prop and water height in the towerhousing/megaphone situation so as to find the easiest way to start the motor in the water. Ir helps to have understanding neighbors or others who like to hear motors run when this manner is used to duplicate running on the boat. If you are in a urban area, good luck, although you might be able to figure it out (starting procedure) before the noise cops get there.

The motor might water (cool) OK like this, but even if it doesn't get water thru the block right away, you are not trying to run it for a long period of time, just get your starting technique down pat. 30/45 seconds of running without water should not hurt it, especially if you don't run at high RPM. Again you are just trying to get your starting procedure down..If you want to actually run the motor for a time like this you can hook a water hose up to the cooling system for that purpose.

Good Luck

[BillCNC]

Hi Bill,

It sounds like I need to make a longer starter rope, so I think I'll make a few different lengths and find the one that works and feels comfortable.

With the recommendation from Stanley Henderson and yourself I went out tonight and bought some B-12 to try out. I'm not to far from the lake, ... 20 miles on a not so busy, 2 lane highway I'll try it out after trying the starter ropes, or in combination.

For home I have the fitting for the water hose installation that I have used in my driveway for running evaluation and starting practice. The neighbors don't seem to mind as long as I'm not abusing it.

In a previous post, you mentioned the plugs, ... their brand spanking new.

[bill van steenwyk]

As you probably know already if you have played with different type engines, each has its own little way of starting, and it normally just takes a little playing with it to figure out what is the right way that only takes a pull or two.

As something else to try if this is just one of those motors that are hard to start, possibly if a previous owner messed with the ports in the motor to try to improve performance, or something else that would be costly to fix, additional flotation could be used on the back of the boat by cutting some foam to the same general contours of the back of each side of the boat on either side of the transom, and then painted to match the color so not real noticeable. Make them about a foot long and slightly above the bottom of the boat 1/2 to 3/4" and attach with epoxy or some other type adhesive. If you use epoxy or most any type glue you need to "face" the end of the foam piece with very thin plywood the same shape as the back of the boat where attached, so the glue will not "melt" the foam as will happen if you use most any type of readily available epoxy. This will give you extra flotation when you are in the back of the boat, but the bottom of the foam will be out of the water when the boat is running so not additional drag. Used this trick about 30 years ago when trying a motor on a boat that was too small for the weight of the motor, both length and depth wise with a driver in the cockpit. Worked fine and if painted the same color as the boat in that area, can't hardly see it from a short distance.


ADD: Also check the fire when cranking by taking a plug out and grounding against the head while cranking to make sure you have a good strong spark and there is no problem with the ignition. Most auto supply stores sell an adjustable gap "spark checker" that makes the job easier, or if you have help have someone else crank the motor while you check the spark while motor is turning over, as it is hard to do looking for spark in the daylight and cranking also. Be sure the plugs are grounded well (both) if you check for spark this way. If ignition is weak as pointed out elsewhere, you are chasing your tail till you take care of that problem.

If you have a water hookup to run the engine with, that is great, just remember if you are going to do this at your home, to learn best how to start it in the water, you need to duplicate the conditions when the boat is wet, i.e. prop on and deep in the water in a tank, or else you have not accomplished much except finding out how it starts with no load on the prop or exhaust megaphone.

[ZUL8TR]

Starting

ZUL8TR,

I have a boat cart that I built and that would work just fine when I am near the shore, ... but that wont solve the problem if I'm in the middle of the lake.

I bought the motor from Kevin Martin, here on the site and the only things I have done to it are, ...

1. Part # 15-6130
2. Plugs Adapters from 18mm to 14mm
3. Plugs BPR10EXI gaped at .020"
4. Fuel Mix 25:1

The timing arm is not locked down and is movable. I try to start it with it in the middle and as soon as the motor starts, I move it to the right, ... (exhaust side) as per manual.

As for the low speed adjustment, ... I have not tried that yet.

To All,

Does anyone know of any websites or guides for working and tweaking the102? Surprisingly, ... doing a web search, I have not found a thing, ... not even a peep, ... are these protected secrets, or what?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Better starting in water away from shore should come with adjustments.
As stated every engine is unique and each has their weirdos that need to be rooted out .

The NGK BPR10EX plug you are using is a resister with a booster gap and could be a problem. I would try non-resister plugs that are used in these engines.

Like NGK: B9EG (P# 3530), B10EG (P# 3630), B9EGV (Part# 5827), B10EGV (P# 5927), the V is a fine wire center electrode. I use the B10EGV in my Yamato with 18 to 14mm adapters and once warmed up it starts great in water (1 pull) and runs great at 7100 rpm. I gap them at 0.025". The #10 heat range is a colder running temperature plug and a safer bet for sustained high speed high rpm running with minimal low speed running. The #9 heat range plug runs hotter temperature and probably will provide better starting but requires careful monitoring (plug and piston reading) for high speed running. Note that with adapters the recommendation is use one heat range colder plug from what was used without adapters.

Some adapter notes:

Check to see if the plug rim finishes flush with the rim of the adapter to prevent plug threads being exposed in the cylindere as this causes hot spots on the adapter and or plug exposed threads and other related unwanted issues. Adjust plug depth as needed with a spacer between plug and adapter. Also the adapter rim needs to be flush with the inside surface of the combustion chamber to prevent exposed adapter threads in the hot gases causing hot spots. I fixed that by cutting the adapter to the correct length and finishing smooth. Yours may already be OK?

[S Henderson]

Does anyone know of any websites or guides for working and tweaking the102? Surprisingly, ... doing a web search, I have not found a thing, ... not even a peep, ... are these protected secrets, or what?

Bill
There is no tweaking to do on this engine. This motor was built for racing. The only thing we done was add an open exhaust. But for you I don’t think you like it. Makes to much noise. Other people on the lake won’t like it and may call law on you. You just need good compression and a good tune up. Get the right plugs like Bill Van said and go out and have fun.

[Wild Bill 96D]

2 clicks of throttle is not enough. Open it up at least 1/2 way or more. I start mine at W.O.T. WIDE OPEN THROTTLE. STARTS 1ST TIME. Have fun. WILD BILL

[BillCNC]

Man, ... this is great info guys, ... Whoo-Hoo!

I just ordered 4 NGK B10EGV plugs, ... they'll be in tomorrow.

I want to buy a fuel pump setup, .. but for the last 2 days, ... BTM hasn't answered their phone, ... are they still around? Who else carries the fuel pump kits?

As far as tweaking, ... I meant, ... dialing it in, getting it running in tip-top shape. The little tricks you guys have.

I am looking for web sites were people document their tear downs, rebuilds of the engine and it's various parts, like cleaning, rebuilding carbs, points, fluids and such. But so far, ... my searches have came up with nothing. Maybe it was meant to be that way considering it's racing, and racing is very secretive.

So far, in the one time I have taken the boat out since I built it, ... I AM HAVING A BLAST even with the hard starting.

Heck, ... I might have to look into building a racing rig and try my hand at racing again. It's been many, many years, ... but I used to race speedway Motorcycles 20 years ago and quite after a pretty harry accident.

Thanks Guy's, ... REALLY!

Bill

[BillCNC]

2 clicks of throttle is not enough. Open it up at least 1/2 way or more. I start mine at W.O.T. WIDE OPEN THROTTLE. STARTS 1ST TIME. Have fun. WILD BILL

I thought about that, ... but I have to launch at a boat dock and then go another 300 yards or so to go until I am past the no wake zone.

[thepiranhabros]

Man, ... this is great info guys, ... Whoo-Hoo!

I just ordered 4 NGK B10EGV plugs, ... they'll be in tomorrow.

I want to buy a fuel pump setup, .. but for the last 2 days, ... BTM hasn't answered their phone, ... are they still around? Who else carries the fuel pump kits?

As far as tweaking, ... I meant, ... dialing it in, getting it running in tip-top shape. The little tricks you guys have.

I am looking for web sites were people document their tear downs, rebuilds of the engine and it's various parts, like cleaning, rebuilding carbs, points, fluids and such. But so far, ... my searches have came up with nothing. Maybe it was meant to be that way considering it's racing, and racing is very secretive.

So far, in the one time I have taken the boat out since I built it, ... I AM HAVING A BLAST even with the hard starting.

Heck, ... I might have to look into building a racing rig and try my hand at racing again. It's been many, many years, ... but I used to race speedway Motorcycles 20 years ago and quite after a pretty harry accident.

Thanks Guy's, ... REALLY!

Bill

Alan is in New Jersey. I don't know if he was affected by Super Storm Sandy. It is unusual he's not answering the phone; he always picks up and returns calls right away, so I hope all is well out there for him. You may want to try sending him an e-mail at abbtm@verizon.net.

[Wild Bill 96D]

[QUOTE=BillCNC;212254]I thought about that, ... but I have to launch at a boat dock and then go another 300 yards or so to go until I am past the no wake zone. [/QUOT
After it starts you can slow down. It does not have enough power to start in the water at 2 clicks. WILD BILL

[BillCNC]

Alan is in New Jersey. I don't know if he was affected by Super Storm Sandy. It is unusual he's not answering the phone; he always picks up and returns calls right away, so I hope all is well out there for him. You may want to try sending him an e-mail at abbtm@verizon.net.

I wondered that also, ... but you would think he would find a computer somewhere and post it on his web site if he had any issues with the weather.

I'll try again tomorrow.