J motors...

[Skoontz]

Brian:

That's an old trick I had not heard of in a long time. Consider this. Calculating the reciprocating friction coefficient and applying it to what it takes from torque and horsepower at what specific places on the power curve. Just as one can gain more speed from reducing friction from the boat bottom as speed increases, theoretically, you could gain if the ring tension (friction) was enough to drag down the motor 2 MPH worth... The trick would be to look at what the loss was going to be if any by sacrificing compression at lower RPM ranges. I'm guessing here, but over 5500, the slight compression loss using one ring would not make much difference, it is when the engine is in the mids that you could get hurt.

At least in my simple cave man landscaper theory.
Back on point, how could anyone ever tell a non factory ring from a factory ring without a stamped part number?

[MGallagher]

Originally Posted by MGallagher
..and really do not have enough information to speak on this..

This is exactly why i said that. LOL!

[bill boyes]

The "J" committee has decided that the Merc 15 piston ring issue will be addressed at the 2009 APBA Annual meeting in RDU. Do to lack of data, background and time frame before the Nationals. Again the Merc 15 oversize pistons rings will not be an issue at the Nationals at this time. No need to panic. No more drama and end of story until RDU.

[csh2z]

No more drama? End of story?.................I don't think so.

[bill boyes]

Just wishing John.

[Cameraboy]

Good - I still have popcorn left

[bill boyes]

Keep Pat Gleason away from it.

[racerchic3z]

Back on point, how could anyone ever tell a non factory ring from a factory ring without a stamped part number?

After seeing the ring in question and a genuine mercury ring side by side, I, with a slightly trained eye, could see a difference. The end gap is nearly double in the ring in question, and is wider then the other ring, among other differences. I, among other people, are curious to know the part number of the ring in question.

[ricochet112]

It would need to act like a dead ring to have an advantage. Having more end gap isn't faster, neither is being softer, but wider??

[Steve Warnock]

Sorry Bill!!!!

The J Class leaders knew of this issue last year and never addressed it. And continue to bury their heads in the sand. Re the Allen comments and many other feelings. This is not a new issue but a lack of leadership failure. Nuff said. We as APBA members look to our leaders to address the majority interest in order to maintain and increase the flock. It's unfortunate the majority of the flock is being punished with no action taken or should WE say indecision. With that said, we need new leadership within the J class commitee that is willing to take on the controversies that appear when they come forward as SORC/MORC etc VP's need to do. We have been there and have done that.

Regardless of the current position of the J committee(not to address till later), this situation will certainly EXPLODE in the face of the J Committee at this years Nats. and be prepared for a late nite commitee meetings that will possibly and most likely decide the KIDS' fate at the Nationals Sat Nite. This does not promote harmony and sportsmanship or membership within our organization. Refusing as a committee to establish a ruling on THE RULE and its intent of that (even poorly written) that 98% of us have taken to heart (merc rings commercial available for the 15.9) are to be ONLY used. The difference in the rings can be identified and measured.

As a past SORC VP, APBA BOD member I am personnally appalled at the lack of leadership here to address this prior to the up-coming Nationals.

Steve Warnock
BSOA Commodore

[BP125V]

Poooch

Todd,

I know exactly where you are coming from and can appreciate your frustration.

I bought an expensive "A" from a well known person once and my engine was a pooch too, until I honed it and put new rings in it (legal of course). With the new rings I was faster, but not fast enough. The next step required getting a hold of some props and testing.

The question I have is how do we get from here, our current situation, to there - where you don't have to be a 20 year veteran to be competitve. I don't have the answer for this, do you have any suggestions?

You do make an interesting point about the Sidewinder. This would make for good discussion at Whitney Point.

Bill

PS I saw a Karl Armstrong at Augusta. are you related to him?

[Skoontz]

Todd:

Sealed motors are how they do it in AQMA and you don't have this type of stuff happening.

[wdlong1226]

new motor

thats why the new hot rod is so important. from what ron says it,s built so you can,t do anything like this. he said anything you do will mess up the performance of the motor. that ought to screw some guys up for a while. problem is when people got money they keep sending motors to people that know what to do to get more speed. poor people SUFFER

[Dave M]

New Twist

Read some books, ask some questions, have the hunger to learn something...... If you want to go fast, pay attention to those that are. It does not take a ton of cash to go fast after the initial investment.

If you are not as keen on engine building as some, why should those that are keen and learned through trial and error be punished ? Seems like y'all are barking up the wrong tree. Git up off the dam couch and learn how to build yourself a screaming engine. One little secret... a motor is only as good the prop that is pushing the boat. Say I purchase Ralph Cooks Formula E powerhead because it is the fastesd in the country. I bolt it on my boat and go. It most likley is going to be a lot slower than what I currently have because nobody serious in racing will sell you the good prop....

As for the Merc J having speed, so be it. Go get you some of those rings and get them in for this years Nat's. It takes only a couple hours to completely dissasemble the Merc J and re-assemble. The cost is very minimal to do this. It is not expensive. And to boot, what makes you think we are not already doing something similar to the OMC's J engines...............................

[5-A]

Thank You Dave - That is just what I was thinking. Do you guys think they should race factory sealed cars and engines in Nascar as well? This is what racing is, continually working on your setup, within the rules (whether the rules are black & white or gray) to go fast, sure sometimes that takes time, sometimes that takes money, sometimes it takes some real hard thinking, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometimes someone breaks away from the pack for a while. I know very little about this specific issue but just from reading these posts it seems like you may be on to something that someone else may have figured out so if you really really want to win it looks like you have a few choices, try to emulate what this person is suspected of doing to figure it out yourself or work as hard as he did when he figured this out to figure your own speed secret out (within the rules of course) Caution: this may take time, it may take money and you may have to take it all apart next year if the rules change - so weigh in your head is it worth possibly having to redo this next year if they change the rule? Finally, there is one last thing I will guarantee - If you work hard and find the next speed secret you and find yourself out front because of it, you will not be among the folks here complaining about it and suggesting that the rules are being broken and need changes etc etc etc.

Before you even say it, I know the J class isn't Nascar - all I'm saying is "thats racing folks" the overseeing commitee can set more rules but someone is going to work to do something else to go faster - If you want to be that person start working on going fast rather then trying to think of ways you can make "that guy" go slower