Revolution DMR 'El Cohete'

[Merc1]

The only problem the new boats are having handling wise is above 80 mph and up. Yes they are going that fast! LB's make a difference. These are 850 speeds... we need weight in 750... no weight in 850. This would match the hydro class and no it would not hurt numbers.

What weight limit do you have in mind?

[kampenracing]

Weight

Weight definitely makes a difference. My E-Runabout rig weighs in at around 535 pounds and NBRA weight is set at 490. We did win alot of races with it last year but we are having a Luce boat built. I expect our new boat to weigh in at 110-120 pounds rigged. My old boat probably weighs 150-160 pounds. I could only imagine running my old boat against some of the fast APBA guys with no weight limit. I am sure some of the light guys would just smoke me. I don't think there is alot of difference between 490 and 535 but I am sure it would be very noticeable between 450-460 and 535. The Luce boats aren't just fast because they are light it is also the design.

[brian]

What weight limit do you have in mind?

I am thinking around 470-490. I will still be way over but the whole point of class racing is to have all of the participants racing similar crafts. Every other MOD and STOCK class has weights but 850 H and R.

If you do not think there should be a weight limit in this class this is who you sound like to me....

Yes this is you!

Snap!

[B Walker]

Any class without a minimum weight will eventually become dominated by lighter weight drivers. The PRO category is a good example of this. For those not familiar with PRO, there are no weights and very few drivers over 200 lbs.

The only question is how long will it take for boat design to "catch up" to 150 lb drivers doing 85MPH. Once it does, 200lb guys will be at a serious disadvantage, especially on short and medium courses.

Then where the fat guys gonna compete?

I see some very short term thinking in this thread.

BW

[guedo499]

Of course lighter setups are going to be quicker around the course! No question about it! With that being said, ALL the OSY testing I have done with super-light setups, I do NOT get the top-end speed other competitors do. Same boat, motor and prop and just a driver change (about 30lbs difference) 1 1/2 - 2mph slower (on-board computer verified). We've tested this again and again, and the results are exactly the same each time. A 315lbs OSY is different than a light DMR, but many of same principles are present.

I wonder when that thing is going to smack me in the face....

Anyways, the realist in me says people don't want minimum weight because it is not very neat to lift a 500lbs boat onto the scales! Give me a hand lifting my DSH up there and you get reminded, real quick, its no fun!

But let me offer a solution to this situation: at the races and especially in the off season, all the larger drivers should provide food and drink for the lighter drivers! It'll be the food-share program and it'll even the playing field! (US Patent Pending)

[B Walker]

Of course lighter setups are going to be quicker around the course! No question about it! With that being said, ALL the OSY testing I have done with super-light setups, I do NOT get the top-end speed other competitors do. Same boat, motor and prop and just a driver change (about 30lbs difference) 1 1/2 - 2mph slower (on-board computer verified). We've tested this again and again, and the results are exactly the same each time. A 315lbs OSY is different than a light DMR, but many of same principles are present.

ummmm, which principles are different?

Real basic physics working here. The heavier an object is the longer it takes to get to top speed compared to a lighter object, but both objects will attain the same top speed eventually.

Easier said: A heavy driver will take longer to get to top speed than a lighter driver but will attain the same top speed eventually.

There is another side to the equation I rarely see discussed. The same physics principle also applies to decelleration forces.

That is, a heavier object slows down less rapidly than a lighter object equal to the same rate as the two objects accellerated.

Applied to a raceboat: a heavier driver will not decellerate as rapidly in a turn as a lighter one. In theory, lap times should be exactly the same. But experience says otherwise.

Why?

Discuss...

BW

[RandY Aveline]

Brad
it is my opinon there is no power plant comparison between the 50 hp merc and an osy power plant the 50s mercs are frikkin work horses as were the older 40 hp mercs hell,

we used to pull up 2 skiers(slaom at that) back in the early 50s and 60 ties with these mercs
the more you ask of them the more they give !!

just food for thought !


when the drivers voted out the weight limit in the 750 cc mr class records that were standing for 15 years were broken.. so now you want to set a weight limit!

guess we just throw out the new records ? and reinstate then old ones!

in 1980 i decided to get back into racing on my own dollar as before i raced on the old mans dollar . i was 23yrs old and 167 lbs
so i bought a used boat (burt hoefs) old krier a flat turner almost 20 years old at that time,
drove 16 hours or so to eufala okla
had a dam fast 55 h mod and 2 props that had won previous nationals in the d hydro and runabout was running fast enough but could not turn the dam boat in a 40 acre field

eventually that weekend before any heats had been run i rolled the boat 2 time's in the same corner in 2 different test runs

the 2nd time i stuck the top cylinder with water and still laneded the rig upright in both rollovers (strange feeling looking up and seeing water lol)

later we decided to not race as i had broken a ring or 2 in the top cylinder but we did go and weigh the boat I WEIGHED IN 64 POUNDS LIGHT of a 490 pound weight minimum lolol NO DAM WONDER I COULDNT TURN THE DAM THING
in 82 we took 3rd at nationals
Mike obrien won, and i was 40 lbs lighter than him or more any way he was a big guy and he won something like 20 national titles in 20 yrs (point being his heavier weight for him was still not a factor)

the next year1983 i took back to back 2nds and was still chasing a heavier rig


my point being [1 thing only ] that too light will not help any thing if you cant keep it on the water !!!!!!!!!

so the weight limit thing is a moot point...
we are having good turn outs and hard competition with things as they are, and you can only go so light before you can not handle it at all (says the so called light Guy lololol)

I say if its not broke don't fix it

if the weights go back to 490 you wont hear me crying all over the hydro racer world as i will just bring it harder and faster (by the way i bet the luce boat will lose a lot of handling) if the weight minimum is reinstated !

why? you may ask, because we had flat turners through the 70s and they lost to the roll up boats

George Luce and my self were comparing weights and we figure he weighs in around 440 lbs that is 20 less than me (btw 440 was the old aof D & Ehydro weights as well as in the APBA) in the 80's and 90's, the D run and E run & Fe run or "750 cc m run and 850 cc mr "40 now included were 490 and even then i weighed in at 500 as i was wanting to be sure i was legal and the big boys still *****ed ( mostly burt, lolol j/k burt ) i was illegal i was running a 50 in the 40 class lol its always something (that was then when i was running good ) now im working on bringing it back (just for FYI)

Bobby laws another good friend of ours his rig we figured with him in it weights in about 70 pounds over the 490 mark and it hasnt hurt him any!!!
as he has won many many national titles !!
p.s watch what bobby does this year, rumor has it hes got an all new power plant

weight or no weight doesn't matter to me as i will still make ya work for any thing you might win !!

Brian what you weigh ??? 400 pounds ?? That cant be healthy for you !!!

for now you want to go faster maybe ,getting in better shape may help you out, or build back some of the lift you took out of the luce boat in 07
why u removed it?? i still have not figured that out!


i think maybe you need some cheese with that whine!!


In the mean time leave your ego on the bank & put your man panties on and do like
Doug Shultz says "SHUT UP AN RACE" LOLOLOL


P.S. I am all for the heavy guys providing the Light guys with food and Drink for the entire weekend man i could save lots of beer money Fer Sure

[brian]

Ok too all. I am heavy. Thank you for noticing.

The idea of weight limits is for competition and to slow the classes top end a bit. we are already in the 80's. I do not want to go that fast I like the 70's but I now have to go 80 to win on most race tracks.

It hurts no-one for a low weight limit. Look at OSY vs CSH speeds and lap times. They are two different classes because of no weight. I just want 750 to be a reasonable class. If you want gross speed and spend a lot of money to race race 850R.

[RandY Aveline]

hmm sorry guys just wanted to commenton some info of what has been said

Brad W says "Any class without a minimum weight will eventually become dominated by lighter weight drivers. The PRO category is a good example of this. For those not familiar with PRO, there are no weights and very few drivers over 200 lbs.

The only question is how long will it take for boat design to "catch up" to 150 lb drivers doing 85MPH. Once it does, 200lb guys will be at a serious disadvantage, especially on short and medium courses."

B Walker

there is not enough water for 750 mr to hit 85 Mph on a short course they are barely hitting 83 on a long course and that is mostly on the long run to the start was the fella that won the 750 cc mr in 2008

short and medium courses for a 750 mr are based mostly on acceleration and midrange as the guy set for top end on these type courses will just get out turned

as for handling the big runabouts need to be set up correctly and yet differently on each course, based on water and climate ! smooth water set up will not handle rough water well and rough water setup will just make ya loose on the smooth stuff this is not something a 5 year rookie totaly understands yet but he eventually will learn if it is handling bad
it is more than likely hes set up wrong

It is the person setup to work well in mostly all water that will usually do well now if you are set up to run out front and dont get there for some reason that fella is basically screwed
I:E setup in rough water for smooth and vice versa for Smooth water

set up is every thing in the big runabouts again i will reiterate its the total package that affects the 4 cyclinder classes the most boat, motor, prop, setup, and driving skills as well as "SETUP SKILLS"

if a guy is complaining his setup is not working at 80 hes probably got the wrong set up or prop and setup combo
we can not go changing things just because 1 man wants it so this racing not dictatorship ..

for this year its set you want it changed well you got all winter to get your buddies to help ya change it in the vote
these thing are the facts that affect big Rowboat running it is not like running an 11 foot 20 horse
i compare it as a Volkswagen to a caddy

Brian If ya want i can help ya with your setups ... just ask when we got time or lets get together off season and test before huntington maybe

i cant remember how many times i changed setups in the last 5 minutes before a heat because the wind changed for better or worse

unless you have countless hours that it take 20 years to total in testing and have spent all day testing all possibles with that 1 prop you will never know which way to go when the water changes in the last 5 mins before your heat

i been racing the runabout classes (save for 13 year lay off in late 90,s )

since i was a kid (first race 1968 in Jsr won both heats in binghampton ny)

i hated the a and b runabout and could not wait until i was old enough to run a big 13 footer

now this is something we may consider is going back to the 13 foot minimum this may help if and when we actually do hit the one time a year on a long course proverbial 85 MPH (which we are not there yet)


Respectfully

Randy 23-H

[Merc1]

[QUOTE=brian;129425]Ok too all. I am heavy. Thank you for noticing.

The idea of weight limits is for competition and to slow the classes top end a bit. we are already in the 80's. I do not want to go that fast I like the 70's but I now have to go 80 to win on most race tracks.

If you want to go slower sell your 44 and look into CMR. They have the weight limit and speed you are looking for! It is that simple.

480lbs 70mph speed range

[RandY Aveline]

Ok too all. I am heavy. Thank you for noticing.

The idea of weight limits is for competition and to slow the classes top end a bit. we are already in the 80's. I do not want to go that fast I like the 70's but I now have to go 80 to win on most race tracks.

It hurts no-one for a low weight limit. Look at OSY vs CSH speeds and lap times. They are two different classes because of no weight. I just want 750 to be a reasonable class. If you want gross speed and spend a lot of money to race race 850R.

why are you racing 750 cc mh if you do not wan to to go 80 ?? as it takes 85 to 90 to even think about winning this class yet you race it ???
same in DSH and yet you race it too

Not trying to point out your weight but after all you did start it commenting on my weight..
it seem we now get to the issue you are having .. its the speeds you do not want to go

finally the real Issue has arrived

me personally i am in this class for as fast as i can safely go and in it to win it if at all possible

my thoughts exactly merc 1

[larry terzinski]

NO UPDATES? How's this project going? Any pic's?:

[brian]

Everyone always answers my weight issue but one one ever answers the 20 other logical arguments I have put out there.

I have been in a cmr and sorry they are not the same ride. OK but not the same ride for sure. I do not mind 80 if everyone is playing the same game. If you find a DSH going over 80 in competition (mercury only) I will buy it. I have talked to the best of the best.

The only argument I have heard for no weight in this class is we need numbers and we do not want to lift heavy boats. The 850 class is your answer.

I say we remove the weight in 750H then. It should be the same in both 750 classes. To save you the time this is dumb azz comment. So why is it not dumb in 750r. Why not remove the weight in CMR those boats are heavy?

750r is going 10mph faster in the last 4 years. The cause .... people using csr boats "DUNN" Scarry his words not mine and people dropping 100lb out of the boats. No one can argue these facts. Bring on the intellectuals!

[brian]

Here is a picture of the top 3 drivers for the 2009 Modified National championships in 750r. (Birth certificates have been verified by the Chinese Government)

Shut up and race!

[Merc1]

Brian could you please tell us who each person in the picture is. I do not recognize them. How does your boat handle at 80? If it is no good maybe you need to work on your setup or get a new boat. You are right a CMR is not the same ride as DMR if it was they would combine the two. Your issues were top speed and weight what are the other 18?. There is a class that has what you are looking for and no rules need to be changed for you to do it. That would mean the only person affected by this change would be you. Bottom line is if you want to continue in DMR I guess you are going to have to work a little harder than the rest of us since you feel you are at a disadvantage.