850CCMH/850CCMR Drivers Only

[Dave M]

Please, only drivers of the 850CCMH and 850CCMR class vote.

Do you support a rule change to eliminate the use of custom made crankcase front cover to alter the angle by which fuel/air in introduced into the crancase ? This would basically apply to all engines currently approved for racing in the class. It is targeted towards the OMC three cylinders currently being used in the class as the motor of choice.

Reasoning - Currently the rules are gray enough to allow this modification, which will obviously work. I have heard that some builders are willing to do this for a fee. I heard that fee from one builder in particular is $2000.00 if you send them your stock front cover. It will be sent back ready to bolt on.

I feel the class as it was say 5 or 10 years ago was a cheap class to get into. There are a lot of powerheads still available and they are realitivley cheap compared to the cost on this single modification. I feel this cost will be a barrier to entry for new members of the class. If you want to win you will need this mod type of thinking. The class does not need this added expense. We also do not need to increase the speeds, which this will most likley do.

I am looking for the opinion of the drivers of this class.

[thunderracing]

well, dave if i was still racing i would be on your side with this. and i agree that it was cheep. but anymore, racing is no longer cheep. anything from gas to hotels to your equipment. things have changed. and if you want to compete, you better have some bucks. money is the biggest reason why i left racing. i put alot into it and got nothing in return. ecept alot of freinds. and who can put a price on that. lol just my 2 cents worth. be safe this year buddy.

chuck 280-p

[Tim Kurcz]

850cc class rules

Dave,

In case you didn't read the minutes from the national meeting:

f. Proposal – Change Rule 2009 Modified Outboard Tech Manual, 850cc class, Rule 5 page 44
1. Add: The 3 cylinder 49.7 cu in OMC motor is required to use the OEM 6 hole reed block. Motion by John Sharp, seconded by J.W. Myers. Motion failed (For 2, Against 5, Abstain 3).

Seems to me the APBA Mod commission has spoken.

Tim

[drew79c]

You gotta pay to play! This is the closest thing to the pro category. This is Formula E, the real name of this category, and it should allow all innovative gear heads to RUN it. And run it hard GO GO GO

[mike ross]

How much to do the front case work? Tim has done some, what does he charge. Is this cost more than finger porting the bock and pistons. Seems to me there are a ton of things to make this motor stronger that cost you some bucs. It's FEH unlimited, no weight, go fast turn left!!!!! Hay here's an idea FEHXS for straight up stock engines. Starting to sound like a Stock Meeting motion to amend the motion. Go Figure!!!! Mikey

[sam]

If you think 850 is unlimited, you have not read the rulebook or inspection manual

[B Walker]

Pay to play?

Anyone else see the irony when the technical rules of a class make a class more expensive to race competitively than a class that is truly unlimited, like the PRO's?

This class discussion is not the only example of that fact.

BW

[form-e one]

we all know the rules going into a class,,, soo deal with it,,,, why change the rules for a few that think 500$ is expensive for exhaust,,,, go buy a c mod exh, set up??? about same i bet.... most expensive part of whole motor is the gearcase ,,,,,have you had a fishing motor re-built at a marina lately 2000$ easy sooo???,,,,,, it all cost money even sitting at the bar,,,,hehehe,,,,

[blueskyracer]

[QUOTE=form-e one;155853] go buy a c mod exh, set up??? about same i bet....

I just did. You could easily sit at the bar for a long time plus add a tower and you can sleep there too. Got to pay to play in anything I guess!!

[Dave M]

Tim

Dave,

In case you didn't read the minutes from the national meeting:

f. Proposal – Change Rule 2009 Modified Outboard Tech Manual, 850cc class, Rule 5 page 44
1. Add: The 3 cylinder 49.7 cu in OMC motor is required to use the OEM 6 hole reed block. Motion by John Sharp, seconded by J.W. Myers. Motion failed (For 2, Against 5, Abstain 3).

Seems to me the APBA Mod commission has spoken.

Tim

I appreciate your input. I am trying to see what the drivers of the class feel. I know John proposed it, and it was shot down.

I am trying to find out if there is enough interest from the drivers to turn that around. I felt this should have gone to a vote to the drivers of the class in the first place. I know I never saw anything like that on my ballots the last decade. And if history repeats itself, just because the cmmish speaks does not mean it is final in the years to come. That is why I feel it is important for the drivers of the class to vote and let the majority rule.

How much are you charging for this Mod ? Out of curiosity? Care to make that public for all to see ? This way maybe those less hands on folks can decide how they want to vote.

I am fine with it either way, I am very capable of making this Mod. I know many who would pay for it because they simply don't have the knowledge, or they don't have the tools to do it. We all know welders cost some cash. Along with your mills, etc.

I just think the rules are getting a little carried away for a Mod class. This kind of thing is Pro all the way. Let’s keep with the traditions of the categories, shall we ? The creators of this class never intended it to be like this. I can say that for certain.

Why not create a FEHX and FERX class like Mike suggests, only open up the rules and allow just about anything, bore and stroke, gas and oil, 850CC's anything goes ? I HIGHLY suggest you keep it to 750CC's though; otherwise we are going to need 15 foot boats. I doubt there would be many participants in the class though. I proposed this very thing at a meeting many years ago, it never even made it to the table it was shot down so fast. Back then though the categories were strong enough to stand their own ground and not many races were combined stock and mod.

Remember, this is just my opinion; it takes all the eligible voting drivers to make something happen here. If the majority wants to continue this, then fine. I don't feel it is right, and to make someone fork out big cash like that in this economy.... come on man. You are talking a 10K plus rig...... without props !!! I can go race 107MPH or more and spend half that in Pro............ for a 350CCH. I know it for a fact, I did it. I bought a used engine (just like all of them are in mod) for $2500.00. I then built a boat myself for less than 2K, had I purchased one brand new it would have been around $3000.00 - $4500 depending on what you get. But with all the used ones out there that are like a few years old....

Anyone seeing my point here ? If not I guess it is not important.

[B Walker]

Sorry Dave, I am not trying to hijack your thread. I am just trying to make clearer what your poll is about.

At its core this poll is about the nature and philosophy of the Modified Outboard Division.

Modified Outboard got its start as a place where motors that did not meet Stock Outboard specs could still be raced. There were plenty of motors available and it was very inexpensive to get into and be competitive.

Gradually over the years the technical rulebook for Mod became quite large. The advanced machining required combined with a parts scarcity problem has now made some classes in the Modified Outboard Division the most expensive outboard class to race at the highest levels of competition.

Said another way, in less than 20 years some classes in the Modified Outboard Division have gone from being the least expensive outboard racing division to compete in to the most expensive.

Is this just the nature of our type of racing? Is there anything that can be done besides complain about the additional costs everytime the tech committee meets and passes a new rule?

discuss.....


BW

[B Walker]

Unlimited Mod class?

Love that idea.

Unlimited 850cc would be well over 100MPH in a week.

I would support this at 500cc's all day.

That would change the game back to machinist vs machinist instead of checkbook vs checkbook.

BW

[blueskyracer]

Unlimited Mod class?

Love that idea.

Unlimited 850cc would be well over 100MPH in a week.

I would support this at 500cc's all day.

That would change the game back to machinist vs machinist instead of checkbook vs checkbook.

BW

Don't you mean Machinist with fat check book vs Machinist with a fat check book.

[B Walker]

Don't you mean Machinist with fat check book vs Machinist with a fat check book.

I knew someone was gonna say. So let me address it.

An unlimited class only reduces the cost of the equipment you start with. The cost per hour for machining is fixed. There is only so much you can do.

If there was an unlimited class a machinist could go to his local marina paw through the scrap pile and find promising equipment he could take home and work on.

How much of the increasing cost of Mod is due to the decreasing supply of parts for the currently legal motors?

Brad Walker

[blueskyracer]

I guess that is one of the reasons I picked C mod. Motors and parts are readily avaliable. And if the machinist supplying the add on parts was interested I would make him a boat to cover the costs. They always need something to strap there motors on to.......

I still think the Mod rules right now are more reasonable than the stock rules. Thats why I changed this year. Now I wish we could get the class to grow. You would think it would grow with easy access to the parts needed.

Brings up the real question. Why is all forms of boat racing going belly up????