rule proposal 21

[Dr. Thunder]

Secondly...and most importantly...the BSH, BSR and 25SSH classes would be exempt from the 35 boat minimum for the first 3 years in which the Sidewinder is available for sale. Reason being to give the new engine/class time to grow.

Dana

So ... the ballot did not include the exemptions? Is that correct?

[Dr. Thunder]

Dana,
Don't marathon racers count You need to count all of the listings, there were also a couple more BSRs.
Darrell

And how about the fact that there were 42 DMR's that raced last year. I wonder how many of those were stock or would have raced stock rather than mod ... or both if "motors" were as available then as now .. they are available aren't they? Is there a big difference between DSR and DMR?

Does DSR have a height restriction?

[kws]

I would be a big fan of this idea. Wouldn't it be great to see 3 heats of racing with 12 C stocks at a race instead of 2 heats of AXSH, 2 heats of FAH, 2 heats of ASH, 2 heats of K Pro H etc. etc. I own a couple OMC and even I get sick of watching OMC's run all day. 3 Heats with big fields would be some pretty exciting racing IMO. It would save wear and tear on this old crew chief to run 6 heats with 2 setups instead of 6 heats with 3 setups. This post didn't come out as good as I'd hoped, but I know what I was trying to say anyway.

I take it you people run J,SO,Mod and PRO all at the same sites on the same days?I am sure that does make for a very long day.

[kws]

And how about the fact that there were 42 DMR's that raced last year. I wonder how many of those were stock or would have raced stock rather than mod ... or both if "motors" were as available then as now .. they are available aren't they? Is there a big difference between DSR and DMR?

Does DSR have a height restriction?

i think the key to your question is DMR is in mod. why would they count in the stock catagory?

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

answer to dr. thunder

Yes you are correct, the following of what Dana intended is not on the ballot.

"There was more to the proposal that for some reason did not make the ballot.

First...there should be an additional proposal for a NEW system of eliminating a class from SO. It would state that any class which fails to meet the 35 boat count during it's probationary year (3rd consecutive year of less than 35 boats) would be eliminated from SO.

Secondly...and most importantly...the BSH, BSR and 25SSH classes would be exempt from the 35 boat minimum for the first 3 years in which the Sidewinder is available for sale. Reason being to give the new engine/class time to grow."

THIS RULE SUCKS ONLY DUE TO THE WAY IT WAS WRITTEN!!!
VOTE NO NOW AND THEN IT CAN BE WRITTEN CORRECTLY AND NOT HURT STOCK OUTBOARD. THANKS

[JoBrewster]

I race two of the three biggest classes in Stock Outboard. I race ASH and 20SSH. I am using Joan Brewster's account to voice my opinion. Again, I race two of the biggest classes in Stock Outboard. If this rule passes, you will hurt a lot of regions, a lot of clubs, and may prevent me from racing. If I go to another race outside of my region it is at least a 8 hour drive. There are a lot of clubs, regions, race sites, that rely on these classes. You prevent them from racing, you eliminate that race site. Do not tell me that they will race as a local class, because I can tell you firstmost that they will not. They have specifically told me this. If you talk about the 45 class, well in Region 12, Region 11 and in Region 10, my 45 drivers want to race stock, they want to race and they want to participate, and they do not want this rule to pass, that is about 15 drivers. Do we really want to eliminate them and tell them that they do not matter. Because that is how they feel, they want to race stock and race stock every weekend and their opinion of this is that the Stock Outboard Category does not care about them. I think that is truly a wrong impression and truly a wrong viewpoint. We cannot lose members, and if this happens then you will lose about 10 something members out of Stock Outboard, just from Region 12; that does not count the other regions. Because that is what this rule is about and states. Our goal should be on how to grow the sport, not about eliminating classes. You want facts, well here are the facts, the only true national classes, that race across the nation with true fields are: ASH, CSH, 20SSH, CSR, and that is it. Shall will elimate all the other classes because they do not race in every region, every race site? We should be about holding races, getting people into boats, into racing, and not about eliminating or hurting those that are trying to grow the sport. If you have three boats in a class, then the goal should be to get five boats in a class at the next site, rather than saying if you don't increase your numbers you will be a local class. The goal should be to get all of the classes to be run nationally, rather than saying it should only by one region. Hall of Champions: well I will state and probally make a lot of people mad, by saying that the last couple of years, there have been a lot of inductees who have gotten into the Hall of Champions based on a local class, because it is only run in one specific area of the country and/or in one region. I am vocal and I am probably making a lot of people mad, but I want to contine to race and if this rule passes, that would make it extremely difficult for me. Do the racers in Stock Outboard really want that? Tammy Dawe

[dil/viller]

rule

lets see don11w is tired of watching 4 boat races. with our clubs trying to survive what classe would that include? how bout the J,A, B, C, D'S THEN THE 25MOD, CMOD,DMOD, both in hydro and runabout. warnock says no to limiting. i gotta go with the warbs on this one. we don't travel for the money to be earned, we do it to race and be with friends. by elimin the national points opportunity for the smaller classes this would hurt the org. would u cause those effected to keep what thay have and migrate to a diff. org? dil/viller.

[Merc1]

Mr. Dil/Viller has made an Excellent point

I wasn't going to respond to this until I read the above post. This proposed rule change is STUPIDITY! Racers that run the classes in question will leave APBA and run where they will have the opportunity to win a Championship. Not only will the boat that is in question leave but any others he or she might race will go along also, hurting other classes as well! Sometimes you guys making these rules try so hard to look into the future that you cannot see what is right in front of your face!

[bill boyes]

I have not seen the proposed rule. Just what has been posted. I believe it has one intent and that is get rid of the 45sst glass in Stock Outboard. For the last several years this has been proposed at the SORC meeting at the Annual meeting and has failed. I fail to understand just what some members have against this class. It has been suggested that some in the Category are concerned that a 45sst driver could get into the Hall. Is that true? We West Coast racers do not speak of getting rid of the small boat counts. You will not hear us talk about making the "B" local or DR local. We make these dumb rules and all we accomplish is lower membership. Just what is it with you racers and the 45sst class. Speak up!!!How does this class hurt you or Stock Outboard. If you do not like it then don't put it on the Sanction.
see Region 11 web site and read Ernie Dawe's post on the message board

[mike ross]

45 is the class that has 35 boats easy. If just a few of the areas ran a 45ss stock race they would have 35 easily. I think John Runne needs to post how the classes will look year to year going forward so everyone can see how there current class would look. This basically shows were old motors are either combined or were a new motor takes it place. This committe worked very hard to get this going forward idea done. Its the way SO is going to look. They looked at current engines and engines in the future. Every commisioner saw it and liked it in LA. Tammy is right about the HALL Of Champions. We need to award folks who are competing in the biggest classes we have. That is why we made the 35 boat rule. This rule used to be 50. The local classes we talk about make sure for the short term no one sits on beach. If they bring ther numbers up then there back in the game. Or maybe they will migrate to one of the new combinations that we created from year to year in the plan. This plan we have will work and it will not drive folks away. What will drive them away is if we fail to work this plan. Mike

[kws]

I think that needs to be done before anyone is expecting ballots back at APBA HQ

[Steve Warnock]

Vote it down

Dudes,

Until we show growth with the sidwider or what ever, local clubs need every entry to pay for the sanction as is. Dana can talk the future, but that does'nt pay the bills today! Sorry Dana, I agree partially but I think today, to make 2007/2008 happen!

Warbs

[csh12M]

Race day cost issue not valid for voting down proposal 21

Hey Steve,

I can appreciate both sides of this arguement on this issue. I am on favor of it, because it is one of the first real steps I have seen for change and long term growth.

Money is a very legit concern, but is a short term issue. Dana proposed a solution in a earlier post that he has implemented successfully at his race in Alex., KY. Run your six or seven biggest classes three times. This generates max. revenue from entries. It also gives more seat time to the biggest classes and may draw a few more racers. With travel cost what they are now, if I have to pick between a race that I run twice and a race that I run three times, I will go to the three times race.

Why don't you think this is a solution to the race day cost issue?

Thanks,
CSH12M

[race4kaos]

I agree with Dana...

and Don, and Dean.

-Running 4 boat heats blows. And that is what loses race sites, helpers, & spectators.
-There are too many classes.
-The race day is too long.

But I can understand some of the opposition's points, so maybe there are compromises here:
-change the HOC criteria to reward the bigger/competitor classes.
-let each race committee decide which classes to run, how many heats, and entry fees (like we do, but with a new formula).

Then stick with your plan! Don't cave when Joe 3 boat class calls you up and begs to add his class for points. Don't cave when Mary cries about how much entries have gone up for all her family's classes. Ignore the complaints from the 3 people who stayed home. It is in the best interest of the sport to have fewer, bigger classes.

(Tammy, what happened to your account - it's not hard to get another one. Well maybe for an ASU grad...lol.)

[mike ross]

WE NEED JOHN RUNNE. WHERE ARE YOU WHEN WE NEED YOU. RYAN TAKE THE BEER AND THE GLUE BRUSS AWAY FROM YOUR DAD. ALIE GO HELP YOUR DAD WITH POSTING ON THE COMPUTER. John when you get a chance lets post how these new classes will look going forward. This way the SO group can see how this looks going forward. I think this will help us get the first phase of you plan approved and remeber everyone this stuff isn't going to go into effect until next year anyway. We want to make sure the sidewinder is what they say it is like Steve Warnock mentioned and also give the Bass brothers and Dave Scott another year with the new D motors they have for sale currently. This proposal puts know one on the beach. It just firms up what makes sence for building the future of SO. Mike