rule proposal 21

[BP125V]

You could still run a class as a local class and keep your numbers the same? Would not hurt your entry fee income.

...I for one am tired of watching 4 boat races.

But Don, if this rule passed you would still be watching 4 boat races. BSOA/MRC will still run the same classes that we always do to pay for the sanctions. This rule would not eliminate that, in fact in may eliminate some drivers as they may not want to make the effort just to race a "local class".

Bill III

[dholt]

I waited till I got my ballot yesterday before weighing in here.

I wrote the "Proposal 21" as part of the SO Steering Committee. It was presented at the National meeting along with a couple other items.


There was more to the proposal that for some reason did not make the ballot.

First...there should be an additional proposal for a NEW system of eliminating a class from SO. It would state that any class which fails to meet the 35 boat count during it's probationary year (3rd consecutive year of less than 35 boats) would be eliminated from SO.

Secondly...and most importantly...the BSH, BSR and 25SSH classes would be exempt from the 35 boat minimum for the first 3 years in which the Sidewinder is available for sale. Reason being to give the new engine/class time to grow.


The underlying theme is to provide a push for people to get out of the dead/dying classes and move into classes which should flourish in the future. For the past 5 years the drum has been beating that our race days are too long, officials are overworked, 3-4 boat races don't interest anyone, and so on.

Well, it's time to DO something about it. Think of the NEW guy. Let's say 3 newbies come to your club and want to start racing. Wouldn't you rather put 2 or 3 in ONE class rather than spread them out?? If the options are limited...then what's left gets bigger. Race days shorten...but entries climb. Racing is better...with more boats in each class. And motor manufacturers have a better chance at selling product without so many other options for people to buy.

Think big picture.


Dana

[f8andbethere]

Where is the responsibility to build the classes?

If a class is declining, someone needs to take responsibility for it to remain viable. It is interesting that many talk about liking to watch a race of BSR or DSR or whatever the class.

According to the rule, these classes can race as local classes -- but a dead class is a dead class. Let's bury it, have the funeral, and move on. Put our resources into places that give an appropriate return the sport.
f/8

[dholt]

By the way, does anyone think the SO schedule should still include:

35ssH
35ssR
20ssR
Super C hydro
20ci BSH
20ci BSR
36 runabout


They were deleted at one time. For good reason. Just like there is good reason in the 21st century.

[kws]

Dana i don't keep the stats for our region. Yet it seems to me that in the classes with just a few boats,those drivers already run the other classes that have similar boat sizes and motors. IE. pull out-add weight,put in or remove restricter plates. so if we combined classes we would still have a reduction of entry fees. if we drop classes those drivers will not be adding to the similar class as they are already in them!. end result reduction of entry fees therefor a reduction of the viability of any borderline race sites. I my mind that is most race sites. Shorter race days would be nice, but not at the cost of losing race sites!

[dholt]

Stats

Here's the class stats for the past 10 years. As you can see, just a couple classes are on the borderline.

For opponents of a rule, what then do you suggest for determining what is and is not a National class? How low can you go? What's your cutoff? What if there are 10 boats across the entire country in a class? Think those drivers deserve the same High Point recognition as the guy who beat 120 others in his class? Think his/her induction into the HOC is as hard earned as the guy who beats his brains out against full fields at every weekend race? Would you encourage someone to spend thousands of dollars to get into a class with 20 active participants? Think that's where the future is?

Stock Activity

Stock '97 '98 '99 '00 '01 '02 '03 '04 '05 ‘06
ASR 86 82 85 70 71 82 82 73 71 70
BSR 36 35 29 25 27 24 26 36 27 30
CSR 69 73 79 85 94 100 109 87 93 85
DSR 11 13 10 15 15 12 10 13 16 17
25SSR 16 15 26 27 29 35 54 56 72 52
ASH 105 87 97 100 94 103 105 107 97 88
BSH 32 40 29 30 31 40 29 30 26 39
CSH 112 128 141 140 117 130 129 124 141 120
DSH 37 38 35 26 31 31 37 33 42 44
25SSH 25 27 23 25 25 34 38 42 36 42
20SSH 86 92 104 106 101 115 107 111 121 98
45SST 28 24 20 25 21 18 21 22 25 24
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total: 643 654 678 674 656 723 747 734 767 709

[kws]

My first concern is viable race sites and continuing "make the budget" to keep the sites we have. To me all points issues become secondary to that core goal. I have no doubt this puts me in a minority. that does not mean that I don't see your point on points. Yet which issue is truly more important?
I don't truly enjoy 3 boat races as much as full fields Yet I would rather have some 3 boat parades than lose a race site

[dholt]

Think Beyond the Norm....

Ok...if you're worried about race sites making budget...I understand. I've been a Race Director for the past 20 years.

There is more than 1 way to skin a cat.

Reduced classes opens up time. So...fill that time with a 3rd race. Run certain classes 3 times over 2 days. There's added income right there. Plus, with travel costs rising so high, the more racing you can get in during 1 event is a huge attraction for racers.

Or...charge higher entry fee but go to a 3 heat format for all classes. More bang for your buck, which is what many people want.

Run a Grand Prix with your spare race day time. Charge entry fee.


There are many ways to add income. It is 2007...not 1962. SO does not have to keep doing the same **** thing year after year after year.

[kws]

I admit i am a very new racer and last years summer Nats, were the first I attended. But i must say, I could not tell the difference between large classes and small classes when the winners of the class received their trophy's! and i can only feel that is due to everyone feeling that those drivers had still accomplished a hard to achieve goal. Did they have to win as many heats no. but are the drivers they are competing against still the best in the class yes. I must say i would find it much easier to vote FOR the rule proposal, if the things that did not make it on to the ballot where in fact there now.

[Andrew 4CE]

This would get my vote.

There are too many classes plain and simple.

It directs new comers to classes that are viable most every where and chasing a nationals title if that is what they want... doesn't stop them from joining a class that has a few boats if they like the class and it's run locally.

For clubs hurting for boats nothing stopping you from running whatever classes you want or running the same class twice. We run 3 days in 2 at a couple of our races up here that don't get the US drivers.

[propnuts]

This I like

Or...charge higher entry fee but go to a 3 heat format for all classes. More bang for your buck, which is what many people want.

I would be a big fan of this idea. Wouldn't it be great to see 3 heats of racing with 12 C stocks at a race instead of 2 heats of AXSH, 2 heats of FAH, 2 heats of ASH, 2 heats of K Pro H etc. etc. I own a couple OMC and even I get sick of watching OMC's run all day. 3 Heats with big fields would be some pretty exciting racing IMO. It would save wear and tear on this old crew chief to run 6 heats with 2 setups instead of 6 heats with 3 setups. This post didn't come out as good as I'd hoped, but I know what I was trying to say anyway.

[Cameraboy]

Making the budget

Let's look at some entry fee numbers. These are from the highest entry fee race in Region 10 (it's also the most expensive to run).

1st entry $45
2nd entry $30
3rd entry $20
Under 17 $20
Pre-Reg. discount $5

To keep the example simple, I'll leave out the the under 17 and pre-registration discount. Let's look at a racer that runs 5 classes under current fees and 2 heat format.

1st entry $45
2nd entry $30
3rd entry $20
4th entry $20
5th entry $20
Total for 10 heats $135 - $13.50 per heat

But what if you run a 3 heat format, and a flat $45 fee.

1st entry $45
2nd entry $45
3rd entry $45
Total for 9 heats $135 - $15.00 per heat

The amount per heat is higher ($1.50?), but the racer is getting basically the same number of heats for $135. And he/she is only having to run 3 classes.
You could "reverse" the math and say that folks that only run 3 classes under the same scenario get screwed. But do they really?

1st entry $45
2nd entry $30
3rd entry $20
Total for 6 heats $95 - about $16.50 per heat

1st entry $45
2nd entry $45
3rd entry $45
Total for 9 heats $135 - $15.00 per heat

How about 2 entries?

1st entry $45
2nd entry $30
Total for 4 heats $75 - $18.75 per heat

1st entry $45
2nd entry $45
Total for 6 heats $90 - $15.00 per heat

Guess not. Looks like they get screwed pretty good now. This is how a club can make the same income with fewer entries.

Let's look at the expense side. Any race has fixed costs - sanction, insurance, anything else that you pay by the day or weekend (porta-potties, and in our case rescue crew). In our case, we have 2 major variable costs - ambulance and ramp rental (both hourly). If all your costs are fixed, or if you get your site and ambulance at no charge, this example doesn't work so run everything. Oh - but there is that other variable cost that doesn't hit the bottom line but is a cost no matter the entries - volunteers.

Running everything (like Tony's record race at Eatonville), let's say 22 classes, two heat format. 44 heats. Most likely 3-4 flights, 8 hour race. Limited classes, let's say 10, with a three heat format. 30 heats, 2-3 flights, five hour race. Let's look at the variable costs

Ambulance @$100 per hour (8 hours = $800, 5 hours = $500)
Ramp fee @$75 per hour (8 hours = $600, 5 hours = $375)

If the race gets done in five hours each day, it's $525 cheaper a day. And at 1-2 flights fewer a day, it's less wear and tear on the volunteers. More time to party in the pits. More time to do stuff besides hang out in the pits. One can start the race at noon Saturday and 10 AM Sunday to allow folks more travel time. If you have trouble limiting classes, run some one day and not the other (DSH Saturday, replace with DMH on Sunday). And think about Dana's three races in two days concept under this example.

We could do the race above, with the $45 flat fee structure, and break even with about 62 entries a day . If we factor in the pre-registration and under 17 discounts, it should work with 85 entries a day.

Problem? You never know who is going to show up to run what class from week-to-week. And if you're a late season race, you are at the mercy of the point chasers. Plus, this isn't the way we've always done it ('cept maybe USTS).

[CSR4C]

06 stats

Here's the class stats for the past 10 years. As you can see, just a couple classes are on the borderline.

For opponents of a rule, what then do you suggest for determining what is and is not a National class? How low can you go? What's your cutoff? What if there are 10 boats across the entire country in a class? Think those drivers deserve the same High Point recognition as the guy who beat 120 others in his class? Think his/her induction into the HOC is as hard earned as the guy who beats his brains out against full fields at every weekend race? Would you encourage someone to spend thousands of dollars to get into a class with 20 active participants? Think that's where the future is?

Stock Activity

Stock '97 '98 '99 '00 '01 '02 '03 '04 '05 ‘06
ASR 86 82 85 70 71 82 82 73 71 70
BSR 36 35 29 25 27 24 26 36 27 30
CSR 69 73 79 85 94 100 109 87 93 85
DSR 11 13 10 15 15 12 10 13 16 17
25SSR 16 15 26 27 29 35 54 56 72 52
ASH 105 87 97 100 94 103 105 107 97 88
BSH 32 40 29 30 31 40 29 30 26 39
CSH 112 128 141 140 117 130 129 124 141 120
DSH 37 38 35 26 31 31 37 33 42 44
25SSH 25 27 23 25 25 34 38 42 36 42
20SSH 86 92 104 106 101 115 107 111 121 98
45SST 28 24 20 25 21 18 21 22 25 24
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total: 643 654 678 674 656 723 747 734 767 709

I just checked the '06 stats from the '06 High Points
BSR 32
DSR 25
45SS 24

DSR grew by 8, let's give a chance to keep growing!

[dholt]

Hey Darrell,

I'm not sure what stats you're looking at. But on the APBA website under 2006 high points, there are 17 DSR's.

Give it a chance?

It has been at around 15 boats a year for the past 10 years.

[CSR4C]

Dana,
Don't marathon racers count You need to count all of the listings, there were also a couple more BSRs.
Darrell