We need to save the sport.

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Runabouts rule?

I ,m going to find out if what he says is true, i think i'll call it boat racing , even if runabouts did come first.
Richard F.

Over the past two years the Oklahoma Boat Racing Association has cultivated 3-4 lakes, on which we've raced each year...all within 200-300 miles of most of us in Oklahoma/Texas. We strive to have have 5-6 races per summer in this area in hopes of building more driver numbers by not having to drive 600 miles to a race.

We've combined classes (so far hydro only) so we have three groups running with step ups available from the class below...this puts lots of boats on the lake and helps keep the sponsor and crowd interested. We usually run about 3-4 hours and we're finished. There's usually money paid for the top 5-6 places, it's a lot of fun and it can be done with the minimum amount of equipment.

Of course there were questions about such a format from the rest of our clubs in NBRA, but we've found it works quite well by just awarding points to the first two heats run ( usually everyone can run 4 heats...maybe more if they step up). Points only count in your class... money comes to he/she who places in the overall race...regardless of class.

To interest more of our NBRA racers, our first such race for 2006 will be run at Mansfield, Ark. May 20-21...with May 20 a regular NBRA 14-class race. The 21st, will be the "Oklahoma Format"... So far it's been good to us.

Dan
O-49

[RacerX]

For those interested in finding some answers to the posted questions...call the APBA HQ and ask for a copy of the 2006 budget. They will send you one. I got one a few months ago.

You will see budgets from 2003, 2004 and 2005.

It will become more apparent as to why the organization can and can't do certain things.

As Darren has pointed out, APBA is run by members...who are volunteering their spare time to do whatever they can for boat racing. No one is getting paid to market the sport...or even each category. It's up the members of each category to do what they can.

In the long run, that's a terrible model.

For real growth, it needs to be run like a business. Categories need to be sold, events need to be sold and marketed.

For example...it could be the the "Gatorade Stock Outboard Series" or the "Klotz Pro Racing Series"

It's either that or pay someone at HQ full time money to be an advocate for racing. Find locations, find sponsors at locations, solicit input from motor manufacturers, etc....

You can't have average Joe (like me) work 40 hours a week...then try to market his/her racing club. It's not a job...it's supposed to be our hobby. Pay someone to do the dirty work. 90% of us just want to race...and that's what we're doing and that's why the sport is in the condition it's in.

I produced the Stock Outboard Promotional video that was shown at the National meeting. Didn't do it in my spare time or as a favor. It's my business.

And more business thinking is what's needed.

D.

Dana,

The information you posted is all news to me! I never new any information was available like that. I also never new about your promotional video. I have been around racing my whole life and I know you have as well. I am not the only one that is left with many questions about what the hell is going on and why. Most members don't know much more then I do and don't have the balls to ask. The fact that they sit here and stick up for APBA without any knowledge like you have is kind of sad. I have a big problem with that. I do care and I do agree with your thoughts.

I worked at the Marine Mechanics Institute for a total of 4 years and contacted Steve Hearn and Ed (I think) via email about a year and a half ago and told them that there was always students that had an interest and it would be easy to form a relationship with The UTI Corporation and get the word out and get packets to each and every student regarding how to get started racing. There is also another marine school in Daytona Beach AMI that is identical. They have the same type program. I never even got a response back. None of the contacts I mentioned with names and numbers were contacted by them either. I know that for a fact. The promotional video could have been shown and seen by every student it would have been a great tool. I am not saying this was the answer to save the sport. I am not saying for a fact it would have generated one new member. I think it was worth doing something with though and not ignoring and there are probably many ideas like this that would be worth a try!!

Anyway....the point is like you said most people work 40 hours a week. That is why are sport is where it is in my opinion is exactly right. So there has got to be a solution Dana right? Maybe farming out some of the dirty work. Maybe a different method of finding new members is needed? But there has go to be a better way and there are members that are reading this that probably have great ideas and need to share them and persue them and maybe make a difference. I didn't write what I wrote just to be a jerk. I wrote in hopes that someone would have some answers and maybe the next time there was a national meeting some of this could be discussed and maybe a better way could be developed. I guess I feel like insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That is what seems to be happening here. If something different was tried and it didn't work I would have total respect for APBA leaders!!! The fact that nothing "new" is going on is a sore subject with me. You would think if you were in charge of all of APBA you could do something that would help boost membership within the budget or atleast get some meetings set up to form some relationships with groups and organizations that could help promote our sport. That doesn't cost a dime it just takes someone that cares about the future of boatracing more then his pocket book and his law firms health.

Your video sounds great! Email me at boatracer11f@hotmail.com. I can get your video at the school with exposure of a few hundred great prospects a month. I still have many contacts there. Let me know and I appreciate you taking the time to answer a lot of my questions. Your response was the most informative. Most of these guys are responding without the knowledge you have. Its nice to have an well thought out educated answer. Thanks!!!

Mike Barrett

PS: I think Allie Runne had a good point in saying that if we put on races in new towns that the exposure might generate new racers. Makes sense and I really think that most people don't even know we exist!! That I guess goes back to your point about everyone working and not having the time to get the new sites. Maybe that is something that could be farmed out. Hire a promoter. Having them find target cities. Gather sponsors in these cities. Take care of the detail and they could get paid 25% of the money he gathered from sponsorship for there efforts. Maybe something like this would be better? Maybe this idea could be improved upon.

[PopPop]

I agree, that we need a paid professional. Most sucessful operations are not run as democratic institutions. Remember that; "A camel is a horse designed by a committee. They couldn't decide if it needed one hump or two, so they made both."

[Steve Johnson]

Committee's

This is the start of a whole new thread.
NOT right now. but soon.
Steve

power to the people

[AOFoffice]

The paid person sounds good...however....

What exactly does the APBA office get out of more members? They get more paperwork, more points to compute, more insurance to order, more plastic cards to send out.
Why not pay that person on a local level?
Get yourself a strong club first. Then offer somene, either a member or a hired local individual at each site, to go out and solicit advertisers, venues, etc? Offer them 25%-50%, even more. The local club keeps the extra money, and any extra money is better than none.
Dana should be selling his videos to each club. Also selling advice on how to market a race. Maybe a packet with instructions? Local clubs need to do more. Which brings up the question. "Who is the local club?"
Connie

[Scott18N]

Come on guy's we need to save the sport.

Mark

I'm still beach bound due to money problems brought on by a chain of unfortunate events. But I'm trying to get back on the water, and I still stay active in my club.

MAYBE late this year, in time for Crystal Lake....

Scott Marriam 18N

[Lights]

Thats cool Scott.

If some of use can't get on the water for whatever reson. Please do help out. It is great fun just being around. Helping out at the races too.

[acr924]

I think Dennis' idea kind of concluded what I was saying, except better.
We're not going to recruit by putting on a new race and using that lake once. If we do buy property, build a manmade lake..or whatever, race there many times in one summer, the chances of recruiting locals from that area are much greater than creating a new race and racing there once a summer.

And yes, EVERY race we (me, Ryan, John & Dennis) go to..this subject comes up. EVERY RACE.

Allie Runne

[RacerX]

John and I have discussed this issue alot over the last few years.
We think that to grow participation, ie more racers, we need to find a
place to race as often as possible. Find a site and hold races once a month,
every other weekend, or every weekend. Yea I know it would be so expensive to do that not possible right. Well look at carting, motocross,
bicycle racing, they have an advantage that we cannot have and that is the ability to race anytime they want to.
If we could race every weekend at the same location, test there, build a "pro shop", then you could build a following, and grow the race from the area participants, and not have to bet on getting drivers from other regions to come to support the races finacially.
Having more races spread about the country is not the answer, but having more races in the same spot is.
It would take a financial commitment of epic proportions to accomplish that,
as we compete now with recreational users for the use of lakes, rivers, etc. If we could control a body of water large enough to accomodate racing and nothing else, eventually interest would grow, and the site would be a testing, racing, spectating, sponsor drawing, self supporting machine.

Just another point of view thrown out there for discussion.
Dennis 21Z

When I moved to Florida there was a rumor that Bernie Little had the same idea and he along with a couple other investors had planned on building a stadium in the Lakeland, Florida area just for racing. Hey Paul Hooten maybe you know more about this then I do? But it sounds like that was his vision and thought as well maybe taken a little bit further.

[Never Enough F43]

Who needs a Day Planner?

It seems to me that many issues are coming up that are not addressing the root of our problem. I live in Region 5 and want to race my boat. I have a 12 year-old son who now wants to race with me. We are not interested in joining every association (APBA, AOF, etc.). We are also not just looking for an association that will only help us, as we expect to help ourselves. After taking a two year break from racing (and really considering walking away without every looking back) we find the same root problem exists. APBA has scheduled yet another race for the SAME WEEKEND as a scheduled AOF race. There are numerous threads to save our sport when the very organizations seem to be competing against each other. We experienced this ourselves in trying to help our town host an annual race here. YES, that's right, the TOWN ASKED TO HOST A RACING EVENT!! Yet, we could not get any racers to come here because they just had to race Camden one last time. While I appreciate the racers' sentiments, while trying to promote a sport (or at least a sport you hope to grow) you must look to the future, not dwell on and try to relive the past. Needless to say, none of the various organizations in our town will even consider hosting anything to deal with racing and we are in the heart of LAKE County, FL (with 1500+ lakes in our backyard! The Altoona Race is ONE of those locations.) Marshall Elderidge worked endlessly with the town on this event for two separate years, yet we couldn't get the support from the racers.

There are only so many weekends in the year available for racing. It seems that racers are going to have to choose only one association to become a member of, join it and support it whole-heartedly. When a racer chooses to leave their region to travel elsewhere and support a race in another region, then how can you possibly complain about opening racing opportunities in your own backyard?

Attempting to run our racing like a business is a good thought. It was attempted here in Howey. Every town group was involved in the planning of the races (Parks & Rec. Board, Men's Club, etc.). An independent group even secured sponsorship through ads sold to surrounding businesses and offering free programs. Two local newspapers reported on the racing (The Daily Commercial in Leesburg and the Orlando Sentinel, Lake Edition). However, after two years of low participation, the town will not even consider any further hosting of racing. The saddest fall-out is that the local towns of Tavares hosts the Dragon Boat Festival (whatever that is) and Mount Dora hosts the antique boat shows and Eustis hosts the annual drag boat races. Now, none of these towns will consider anything dealing with hydro-racing.

Save our sport? Certainly. How? Pick an association and run your boat. You cannot serve two masters!!

Dave Carter

[RTM]

I used to watch the inboards run at the Miami Marine Stadiam. It was a classey place to race with good grandstands, parking, perminent concessions, good pits, etc. I don`t remember why they shut it down. I think they built condos there. That might be part of the reason why you don`t see perminent race sites where you can hold races on a weekly or monthly basis. If you can find an unused lake, it would be premiem property, and expensive, and before long they`ll want to build expensive homes around it. You can build a local stock car track, out in the cornfields somewhere, so you can`t really compare the two sports. There is to be a flooded gravel pit in Ft. Myers Fl. For a few years they had water ski tournaments there. They built ramps, launch areas, parking, etc. Then one day the developers took over, Good bye water ski tournaments. For something like this to succeed, someone like Bill France needs to step forward.
Also I`d like to see a class for only rookies. People who are new or away from the sport for many years, like myself. A boat that is a little more forgiving, and slower, maybe even with a fishing gearcase like the old "36" Class. A class to get started in so you can see if you really want to get involved. What many racers don`t realize, is, that boat racing is a very intimitating sport to a new spectater, unlike local hobby stock car racing, where most people think they can do it.

Rich

[Lights]

Also I`d like to see a class for only rookies. People who are new or away from the sport for many years, like myself. A boat that is a little more forgiving, and slower, maybe even with a fishing gearcase like the old "36" Class. A class to get started in so you can see if you really want to get involved. What many racers don`t realize, is, that boat racing is a very intimitating sport to a new spectater, unlike local hobby stock car racing, where most people think they can do it.

Rich

D. Sorensen Has already got the rookie class figured out. I think they call it the Norcal 400 It is a C hydro and Yamato. The motor is run deep and they use the props that come with the motors.

[Ron Hill]

Carl Kiekhaefer Said It Best....

Carl Kiekhaefer was basically a farmer. But he had engineering in his blood and a marketing concept that is still driving kneel down racing....

Fact: OMC built the 15 A and 45 SS motor because Ernie Dawe had approved C-NOD. C-NOD was a 30 TOHATSU ON A 12 FOOT SIT DOWN BOAT...A ONE DESIGN... Charlie Strang and Company, fearing Japan, offered APBA two new motors if they didn't approve C-NOD...

DAWE'S COMMISSION approved C-NOD anyway...At that time, DAWE saw the future as a sit down, stock outboard motor class........but when OMC built the 15A AND 45SS, Dawe allowed C-NOD to become an OPC class.

But, two new motors, with OMC's backing didn't grow kneel down racing....because, in my opinion several problems exsisted that OMC never addressed:

1. My GRANDFATHER drove boats on his knees.
2. Electric starters actually work.
3. PACKAGES is what AMERICA WANTS...(How much beer would Budweiser sell if you had to get someone to build you a cup everytime you wanted a beer....???)...My sixteen year old asked me what is a six pack??? He knows what a 20 pack is....

APBA has a Winter Nationals with 27 classes with racing from sun up to sun down.....wht if you only raced one class....?

When my brother won the Hearst Regatta in 1949, there were 32 A Hydros, but they all ran together...Now days, we have boats that only run in glass water, and if you have 13, they run eliminations heats...So, the new guy gets top run one heat...

I went to the GNRA meeting the other day. They agreed as a group, that they wanted to race six times year. They want to race two ten lap heats on Saturday, and a twenty lap heat on Sunday. THIS CLASS IS BASICALLY A California class, but the members come to the meeting and come to the races....They'd like big money sponsors, but they also know, if they plan to race, they need to pay there way. 40 laps, one boat on a weekend...

To race kneelers, you'd need at least four boats to race 40 laps....

Gary Lewis was very surprises that so many people wanted his EQUIPMENT..I explained to him that the average guy can't just go on line and buy good stuff. When I raced kneelers, I always had motors and boats for sale..Good motors and good boats....as I never wanted new people to beat, I wanted new people to race with.

[Ron Hill]

Big Stories Continued...

When Chad raced J Runabout, we'd park our tariler in front of the house after races....every now and then, someone would come by and ask what are those things??? (Runabouts and Hydros)...

When Chad was 16, HE PARKED HIS 45 SS in the driveway, and about 20 kids came buy to check out his RACE BOAT....

Bottom Line: Kneelers need to go to sit down...

Soap Box Derby got to a point they almost had no entries because the "TRICK" cars had gotten so trick that few people could compete. So, they developed a "KIT CAR" Class....Tell me, has most of the boats, in the 27 classes we have, become so trick that the average person says, "What he F*&K is that thing? Lay daowns!! Runabouts that won't float in a river that has any current.....Runabouts with fins sticking out the sides like they are ready to slick steak.. Pickle forks that would go through a man... runabouts with nose on them that like like needles.... In my dad's day, "needle noses" were illegal...

Carl Kiekhaefer was asked by Freddy Miller to please build some new motors....Carls answered with a "WHY?" He continued that the concept needed changing...

I'm working with some guys in California to develop a new "CLASS" called FAT "C"...

1. Sit down
2. Cheap motors
3. Transom height
4. Prop Cailmer Price
5. 750 pounds
6. Marathon races and heat races, every race...
7. tunnel boats
8. Electric start..

I have no clue if this class will go anywhere, but we have 14 motors on order.

If you look at my "VIEWS" www.boatracingfacts.com under FAT "C", you'd see I have quite a few views....

I sell propellers on E-Bay, but every week I get over 100 E-Mails for propellers for boats under 60 HP...I know there is inter in small boats, and at $3.50 a gallon for gas, there may be more interest.....trouble is, the 200 exsisting kneelers have no plans to change...See 27 classes, rounded to 30, with 300 boats....three boats per class.. Kneeldowners, if you run enough classes, become Champions.....

No one, will face the concept of paying points by boats beaten....Everyone likes to be HIGH POINT, even if they race with only four boats....Points shoud be gi en by boats beat....then, when ou were NATIONAL HIGH POINT CHAMPION you would have beaten the most people in your class....

Too many kneeldowers have played the sysem to win..new peopl come and say??? HUH???

What we need is:

1. A Kit boat Class that the COMMISSION owns, so, if hey sell any, they'd make some money on them..I Kit boat, that could be sold as a KIT or built by one of the many boat buidlers in this country...And, a PRODUCTION OUTBOARD SHOULD BE USED...Like a 35..Yamaha, Suzuki, Evinrude or Mercury...NEW....Not a used Japanese motor that needs to be sent to Tom Johnson, Bob Goller.....John Meyers...(This is not to say they don't know how to build and engine...but this Division is called Stock Outboard and we aren't very Stock...when is the last time you saw a fishing engine with a rope start and no reverse????)....

AND, I'll be the frist to agree that APBA has NEVER tried to promote any part of boat racing...a monthly magazine isn't a promotional piece...it is a new paper...My daughter-in-law wrote me an E-Mail, and asked what kind of sponsors do we like??? Wht is our target market??? (She sells abou $200,000 a month in advertising for Clear Channel Radio)...

What business are we in???? If we had 300 classes, everyone would have won a WINTER NATIONALS...THINK ABOUT IT...

To save this SPORT, we may need to adopt a different CONCEPT....

We may need :

Safer Boats
We may need to give away secterts
We may need to become Mentors to new people....
We may need to do nothing until we are down to zero...then we can say, "It ain't my fault."

Look in the mirror, "What can you do to help SAVE THIS SPORT?"

[PopPop]

Kneel down

Ron,
With all you said, there are people that simply love kneel-down racing.
On many of your points, I fully agree. We have too many classes, many going the same speed. Do we really need two J classes? Do we really need AX? Do we really need class that are simply restricted versions of something else? Do we really need race committees that somehow believe we can run 40+ heats in 5 hours when no matter what we do we always average 5 to 6 heats per hour. Do the math. We have created a long boring show for racers and spectators alike.

Best regards, Phil Doerle