Engines: What’s the plan moving forward for stock outboard?

[deeougee]

New and used engines seem to be hard to come by these days, especially 300 series yamato engines. Not sure about Sidewinder engines, haven’t heard anything in awhile. I assume Mike’s priority is to supply engines and parts to Europe first when it comes to the yamato. For some people it took 2 years to get their engine. You can’t go down to an outboard dealer to buy a motor, it is really hindering growth in stock outboard. A lot of these people have no interest in older motors for a variety of reasons. So what is the plan for engines moving forward?

[Albert]

Parsun China built 20-25hp 2 stroke power head. The question in what do you do with the lower unit ? If it's racing only you could import it EPA exempt...right?

[bh/]

l/u's are no problem .

Komatsu(sp?), Konny, Sidewinder/ OMC, Yamato, .....

[DeanFHobart]

New and used engines seem to be hard to come by these days, especially 300 series yamato engines. Not sure about Sidewinder engines, haven’t heard anything in awhile. I assume Mike’s priority is to supply engines and parts to Europe first when it comes to the yamato. For some people it took 2 years to get their engine. You can’t go down to an outboard dealer to buy a motor, it is really hindering growth in stock outboard. A lot of these people have no interest in older motors for a variety of reasons. So what is the plan for engines moving forward?

There is not much of a plan...if any. Unfortunately the APBA SORC is not very proactive on this subject.

[daveracerdsh]

Having been a long time member of the SORC, I know the challenges they face. In reality, we are going to have to go to 4 stroke powerheads in the near future if we are going to survive.

[Albert]

I know everybody here probably loves two strokes. But would going 4 stroke be so bad?
A new Tohatsu 20hp is about 110lbs dry. Cam valve springs and a remap and open exhaust probably gets you to nearly 30hp.

A lower unit seems to be a great place to shave weight....

[John Schubert]

Looking for a fair to nice condition Mercury 402XS. Contact jschubert19j@gmail.com if you have one to sell or know of someone who does.

Thanks
John

[pav225]

4 strokes are being tested. It’s very likely they will be part of racing in the US in the future.

[Albert]

Care to share some more details ? Or is this top secret nuke code level information.

[pav225]

We’ve been testing a Mercury 20 Hp 4 stroke. In the early stages but very encouraged by how it performs.
Hope to have higher pitch props to test before lake turns to ice.

[deeougee]

I assume this is the newest Mercury 20hp 4 stroke efi, weighs 99lbs. Are you using a quickie foot or the foot that comes with the motor? Target class? Or is this going to have its own? Do you know if this motor has been engineered and built by Mercury or is it private label from someone else? Sound like it was engineered and manufactured in house. Can’t wait so see pictures and hear the details. Would be great to get something here and move into the 21st century.

[Albert]

Does it have a pressurized oil system?


Edit: If you are wondering why I asked I was just wondering how difficult it would be to turbocharge one. With efi already in place the next biggest issue is oil supply for the turbo. Not really a relevant question for a stock outboard conversation.

[bh/]

image_42672.jpg image_42673.jpg -what happened to this clean looking B Honda prototype ?

[deeougee]

Don’t know Brian. But I saw pics tonight on the Hot Pit of the Merc on a Runabout and it looks good. Haven’t heard any numbers yet but the motor is box stock. It’s an EFI engine that weighs 99 lbs. They are testing with the stock foot, that is huge. No special foot and modifications to the motor. If things work out well and this engine is adopted that means anyone can go to any merc dealer and purchase an engine and go racing. That’s the way it should be. No huge investment in props either.

[Dave Cofone]

Your probably looking at 7-8000 dollars for this engine from a dealer. You could buy 2-3 Yamato's for that and props and spare parts......Still the times are changing and alternatives will have to happen. Should be interesting to see what happens.

[laddies]

The 44XS engines we bought from Mercury were $1800

[deeougee]

It’s not that expensive. It’s about 3300 US and 3800 Cdn before taxes and that’s a tiller model, would probably be cheaper without the tiller. Mercury gave the SORC committee an engine to try out. This engine has been flying out of the showrooms, Now if it were to be raced as is the engine would have a much wider resale audience once you are done with it or put it on the back of your fishing boat. I wonder how fast this engine would go with a quickie on it but would mercury support this like they did with the 25 and 44xs. I’m having a nostalgia moment with the Merc Challenge Series. The question really at that point is would you really want to do that anyways when you would have much more mass appeal in running the engine in the current configuration. Right now I can envision going down to the Toronto Boat Show with one of these on the back of a runabout or hydro and I would imagine it would draw a lot of attention because everyone can identify with it because it is the same motor on the back of their fishing boat. This is where we really need to be if you want to attract people to the sport. Anyone can go down to their local dealer and buy an engine.

[Albert]

I think your last point there has a lot of merit. Having a stock, recognizable products with parts support in every major center would make things easier for new racers such as myself.

Yes the upfront cost would be more than buying a Yamato as I did, but EFI and Electronic Ignition would sure make a lot of the initial challenges disappear entirely.

[deeougee]

Well for us here, I’m in Ontario and I was finding the engine for 3800 Cdn before tax and with a factory discount. To buy a 300 series Yamato you are looking at 2800+ US and that’s a used 302 (sure you might be at the right place at the right time and get one cheaper). For the 321 and 331 they are close to 4000 US. So by my math the better buy is the Mercury. Certainly much better from a parts support standpoint. You are also getting away from specialized propellers. Right now they are testing with factory mercury props. So much more support on that front also. Not many people making small racing props anymore and they are not cheap! Moving forward, maybe this could replace 300SSH as the spec class. This engine would be a game changer, puts a lot of options on the table. This would pretty well be a maintenance free engine. No carb to tune, plugs to read, etc. Learning curve is much shorter, go out and have a fun worry free experience.

[deeougee]

Update on pricing, seeing this engine going for $3100 Cdn before tax. Manufactures discount on 2021 engines.

[laddies]

It was not to many years ago that stockoutboard pissed in Mercury's and OMC's boot to get rid of them so members of the good old boys club could make a buck on their engines. Thats what is killing stockoutboard! Originally stockoutboard was formed so the average person could compete with a stock boat and motor. Now they have been priced out of racing by the commission, no longer is stockoutboard about driving it's about money and who you know. What good are new boats and motors when you can't buy a decent prop, some people just need to call and they have a top of the line prop and their are other people that cound not buy one at any price. Not many people want to make the kind of investment that stockoutboard takes to just be an also ran!

[deeougee]

In your opinion would a box stock motor including the foot (no quickie) address your concerns? For me it would. I can relate to what you are saying and I do all my own work. Everytime there is a rule change I adjust my engines accordingly. Like for instance the head dimension delete for yamato heads. Are you familiar with the SRX SHOP? Enough said! It pisses me off! My engines are anything but stock! Should be racing mod but they can’t get it right there either. Like not allowing the use of the pro foot in B and C mod on the yamato.

[laddies]

Deeougee, I know that it is unpopular among the good of boys but I think that stockoutboard needs to get back to it's roots and use stock engines from a legitimate outboard manufacture, not like what is being done now. Engine that are manufactured in a small business platforn will always be scarce along with parts for them. Stockoutboard racers need engines and parts readly available to them, and when new engines become available the need to be raced in the factory new specifications, not allowing crankshaft welding, differant carbs, heads milled to mention just a few things. Props should be drawn at the race like the merc challenge. If everyone used a fishing lower unit so be it, but we need to get back to stock, where it is the drivers ability, not deep pockets to win a race.