starting rule

[csh2z]

speak up!

Bob Wartinger, where are you on this issue. You are THE MAN!

[D_Allen_III]

I'm not sure how it works in most areas of the country, but in the Midwest, and typically at every nationals I've been at, starting is the most valuable and most important part of the race. If you are a half a second late, let alone 2-3 seconds late, you will be in the middle of the pack with no chance to win. Which is why you should have no chance at a record if you do the same thing.

When I read COMPETITION RECORD, I think about how difficult it is to nail a start especially with 11 other people trying to do the same thing. That is competition. Competition is getting the inside from 6 other racers trying to do so, and still being at the 500 foot buoy when you are suppose to.

Having the clock start when the first boat crosses, not only makes it harder on the scorers, but it also takes out a major portion of the competition. Setting or breaking a record shouldn't be an easy thing to do. You should have to drive a perfect race in order to earn yourself the title of a "record holder", being 3 seconds late but going as fast as you can is not a true COMPETITION record. That to me is a kilo run, and that is why we have them.

[hydroracer25]

not this again....

Susan,

I know I responded to this type of post a few months back with some 'passion' and my opinion has not changed although I understand your point about "grand-fathering" records due to the way the starts are conducted. Let me first say that the reason it was changed as I understood it was to make things easier on the scoring crew (ie. unpaid volunteers) and to take one of the "judgments" of trying to determine when/who the first legal starter is. I know that there is still the error in when the timer pushes the button, but at least if reduces the number of error by removing one of them with a larger variance.

With that said, you stated "We cannot compare our sport to others and their starting procedures as our structure is completely different. We do not have a pace boat nor do we start Lemans at record races (not yet anyway)." You are correct we are NOT like other forms of motor sports. We ARE unique, but one of the most unique things about our racing is the flying start on a 60 second clock. This can make/break a race and is one of the most important factors in winning a race. Therefore, why should we make a record event any different and as I believe Mr. Holt so eloquently put it "allow someone to mosey over the starting line". I know racers won't 'mosey' over the line, but why should they be able to be 2 seconds late?

Bottom line in my opinion is that the rule was changed for the right reasons (1. make it more consiseant, 2. make it easier on the race committee). Should the records be grand-fathered? In the perfect world maybe, but if you do that, make sure you go back and re-issue records/grand-father all the other classes such as BSH/BSR (reduced cc's about 2 years ago and I don't think any of those records will ever be broken), CSH/20SSH (1/2" height rule, maybe the records were set before this and someone was running at 3/8"?), in fact all hydro records since the prop shaft center line must be below the bottom of the boat, class weight changes....I could go on and on, but my point is rules get changed and if every time we make a class change (rule change) we'd have to grand-father everything, thus creating new records every year and garnering a new records every year or so. Is that fair??

Racers try to go faster all the time with boat design, set-ups, propellers, engines...with the goal to beat the competition. If the compitition is strong enough eventually the racers will go faster the records will be broken.

Mark

[hydroracer25]

typing at the same time

Donny,

You and I must have been typing at the same time (mine just a little longer). Obviously you and I race against some top shelf racers week in/week out and our viewpoints are very similar about how "Competition" is the key word in boat racing and how much the clock and start plays a roll in determining the outcome.

Well stated. Now get back to studying!

Mark

[D_Allen_III]

Still on break for another week. Just playin' some poker online.

Yes, competition is the key word.

[bill boyes]

That leaves the "judgement" to the chief scorer than does it not? So than they, the chief scorer or whoever is running the timmer, decides who is and who is not legal "in their own eye" before the photo shows the proof. Am I wrong here? I can't figure why this is an issue. Unless there was some "help" on the judges stand at some time. I am in no way accusing anyone of cheating! But why put a constant, the clock hitting 0, into someones' hand as a variable?

Davey, correction the start of a race is by the Timer not the chief scorer.

[bill boyes]

Let me say this, the rule was changed at the San Diego annual meeting with much yelling and moaning by some who thought that their method of settting competition records would suffer by the change. However, this has not been the case as many new records have been set since the rule change, The thing that really bothers me is that the people who want to go back to the old way is for setting competition records. Now the fact is if the rule is changed back to WHEN THE FIRST BOAT CROSSES THE STARTING LINE then ALL closed course races will be effected. The TIMER will have to decide when to start the time. Could the Timer start the time on a gun jumper? YOU BET!!! The way it is now the TIMER starts the timing equipment at ZERO.
Every Annual meeting since San Diego there has been a movement to go back to the old method of starts. Every year it has failed to pass at the Race and Rules Management Committee meeting. Often by a very close vote. Will they try again this year? I will bet that they do and believe me they could pull it off this year.
For those who really care I suggest that you make your VIEWS KNOWN. Just who is on the Race and Rules Management Committee?
Mark Weber Chairperson
All Board of Directors
All Category Chairpersons
Special Events Chairperson
Tell these people who REPRESENT YOU your Views. DO IT TODAY!!!

[kws]

Bill I am a bit confused now lol . I understood Davey's post to mean under the old rule the Chief Score started the clock ,not under the new rule??

butt i do know that you all have covinced me that the new way is better than the old way.

[18W]

Kevin-
Bill is right. The timer, the person on the stand, actually is the one who makes the decision to start the handheld timer.

[Steve Warnock]

Starting the timer

At BSOA/MRC we have a little box called "RING-RING", it is a bell box that activates with 3 seconds lrft on the clock, when the clock hits "ZERO" "RING-RING" stops. The best practice that we have used since I started racing (1971) is that the timer places his/her foot on "RING-RING" so that when "RING-RING" stops ringing the timer starts the stop watch.

One of our other clubs Wisonsin Power Boat at one time had a bank of 12 stop watches where a signal from the same clock controler was sent to a solinoid that actived all 12 watches when the clock hit "Zero".

With that/this said, the practice of timing racing events when the clock hits "ZERO" has been in existance for quite a few decades. At San Diego, the rule was brought up to date to what all clubs/events should have been doing all along.

We have all been there, its tough enough at times to pick out gun jumpers and legal boats at a start regardless of video/photo film/digital processes used today, let alone leaving the start timing of an event to a qulified timer trying to figure which is the first legal, especially when the race committee is still trying to figure who is legal or not at the end of the heat or event.

Sorry, the racing timing starts when the clock hits "ZERO".

Warbs

[bill boyes]

I like that RING RING deal.
What we have in Region 11 is both clubs have a video camera and one club has a LED light on an arm in front of the lens that shows up on the monitor as a red spot. When the clock starts the LED if on and when the clock reaches zero the red LED goes out. The other club does the same with just a 60 watt light build on an arm out about 2 feet in front of the Video camera. Does the same thing. It works for us as we can play the video tape back and freeze frame it. One frame the light is on the next frame the light is out.
At the Oroville record race last year we took another monitor and set it on a table so that the timers( we used 2 one for back up) had their own view of the start via the monitor. The lights goes out start the timepiece. Just about as accurate as we could get it with human error in lag time.
NOW i will say it again let the BOD and your Category Chairperson how you want them to vote.!! I Bet it will come up again,again and again.
I really feel this should be a Ballot item for all racers to vote on and put this issue to bed once and for all.

[Steve Wilde]

Clock start

Everyone on the judges stand knows when the starting clock hand hits zero: a light comes on or off or some other type of automated signal is activated. If your starting clock does not have an electronic feature that accurately indicates zero, you have lots of homework to do.
On the other hand, in a real boat race, nobody knows which boat is the first legal starter until the tapes are replayed again and again.
To allow an individual to 'pick' which boat was the first legal starter, before review of photos and tapes, would turn the race into a bad joke.
The rule should not be changed.

[Susan Rautenberg]

Heck--I knew I could create some commotion over this!!!! Thats alright--I've backed off of all this political jargon for awhile now--but look out J Class Committee--got 2 new drivers going racing next year!!!!
see ya there Susan

[888race]

Love ya Susan

but you ain't seen nothing yet be prepaired for the j committee politics ever been to any pee wee games football baseball soocer basketball J NATS a parent trying to relive there childhood thru there kids holly moly IF you remember two thing only be safe and have fun and hopefuly you don't make the same mistakes that I and many others have made good luck I wish you well

[Norm Schaub]

Competition

Am I missing something? I always felt part of the competition
begins when the one minute gun is fired and drivers try to get
to the starting line when the clock reaches zero. That is one
constant (reaching zero) and as long as the clock has a way
trip a camera, or mark on video, when that happens, it can be
determined who are the legal starters.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Norm