starting rule

[Susan Rautenberg]

ok---fact: there is no right or wrong answer on this topic. There is no 100% fool proof solution. There are two sides to the coin and which ever side you choose: the old start method (when the first legal boat crosses the line) or the new start method (when the clock reaches zero) is your own opinion and it is that only. We cannot compare our sport to others and their starting procedures as our structure is completely different. We do not have a pace boat nor do we start Lemans at record races (not yet anyway).
However--- For as long as I can remember we have started when the first legal boat crossed the line until just a few years ago when we made the change over to when the clock reaches zero. We took a method that may to some have had some imperfection and created a mess when it was working fine and has had for years. WE took a round tire and made a flat. Right or wrong--doesnt matter--we now have a dysfunction in our starting procedure.
Either way--we need to do one of the following:
(A) keep the new rule-where the races starts when the clock hits zero and grandfather All of the records that were set under the "old" start rule. We have created a disadvantage to current racers trying to break old records by not racing under the same starting conditions/procedures. These records were set when the first legal boat crossed the line not when the clock hit zero.
(B) Revert back to the old start method of starting the clock when the first legal boat crosses the line and continue competing against the records that were set under this method and have been set for many many years this way.
How many clubs run synchronized watches with their clock?? Probably not many--the argument of determining when the timer starts the clock is invalid--they can be off when the clock hits zero just as easy as being off when the first boat crosses the line--its all hands on with the timer.
Either way--this really needs to be dealt with--currently the start rule and the records conflict with each other. Yes-- WE (my family) have 2 records in the books right now so it does affect us as record setters and I am not trying to "protect" anything --just make it right one way or the other. I know what my vote would be.
The APBA Board of directors passed this rule and the Race Management committee needs to fix the flat tire they created. It wasnt broken before and now it is. Please do something....
Susan

[Andrew 4CE]

I don't understand... are people fighting to change it back to when the first legal boat crosses the line? Otherwise what is the issue?

I can't ever remember starting like that up here. Seems wacky. Clock zero's the race starts... if you're late, your heat times are slower obviously, because you didn't do it right.

?

[Andrew 4CE]

Nevermind, I'm just an idiot.. lol, long day.

[Susan Rautenberg]

YES--bring back the old start rule.....My opinion-let er fly----
These are competition records...part of the competition is COMPETING to be the first legal boat to cross the line and start the clock against the other racers. We jockey for position and compete to the start line--with the old rule. This is part of the competition on the water.
Now--with the new rule who gives a crap when you get there --the race is now against the driver and the clock at the start not your competitors--there is no race against each other to be the first to "break the clock"--we have taken away some of the competition out of the competition records.
Maybe we dont have competition records anymore and just run time trials.

[18W]

That leaves the "judgement" to the chief scorer than does it not? So than they, the chief scorer or whoever is running the timmer, decides who is and who is not legal "in their own eye" before the photo shows the proof. Am I wrong here? I can't figure why this is an issue. Unless there was some "help" on the judges stand at some time. I am in no way accusing anyone of cheating! But why put a constant, the clock hitting 0, into someones' hand as a variable?

[RuthieRae]

I guess if we are going to throw "judgement" out there then we should be looking in every direction. Our sport is about judgement, and leaving judgement to our volunteers. Referee's, turn judges (judge.....) are all using judgement everytime each of us goes out on the course. As far as the constant, it will never be constant as long as someone manually has to hit the button, regardless of zero or not. I think that even bringing up a line such as "maybe there has been help" is absolutely ridiculous, and to say someone doesn't think people are cheating....why even say such a thing? Synchronizing your timing equipment with the clock is the only accurate way to do what you are speaking of and letting the equipment do the work so no one can misjudge the start. The timing equipment is a separate entity from the clock, pushed by the hands of a timer (in our neck of the woods we have a separate timer, not the chief scorer doing the timing at our record events) so it is always going to be about judgement. Actually we have two timers. Someone in a post a few months back made an issue about being consistent. That is the issue here, not the rule, or the the old rule or what have you, but consistency. It is not consistent to go from one set of rules to the next with out starting over. Had we made consistency an issue to begin with, the rule never would have changed. Now, it just needs to be fixed, not necessarily changed back, but reviewed to see that a lot of racers are at a disadvantage trying to set records where the starting rule has changed. That is all, nothing more. We don't have the money or the man power to do what most sports can do with their equipment and their people. Once again, we are just volunteers, and for that we really have to be greatful we have the great ones we do who give their time each weekend and don't need to be criticized for their efforts (like saying they "help"). As far as proof, well, sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words, sometimes (wakefield, like everytime I have been there) it is full of rain and mist and it is a crappy polaroid that no one can see and guess where they go when the proof isn't so visable, to the scorers who write the numbers down. It isn't as straight forward as one may think. It all depends on the equipment.....I don't think so.

[18W]

"As far as the constant, it will never be constant as long as someone manually has to hit the button, regardless of zero or not. I think that even bringing up a line such as "maybe there has been help" is absolutely ridiculous, and to say someone doesn't think people are cheating....why even say such a thing? Synchronizing your timing equipment with the clock is the only accurate way to do what you are speaking of and letting the equipment do the work so no one can misjudge the start. The timing equipment is a separate entity from the clock, pushed by the hands of a timer (in our neck of the woods we have a separate timer, not the chief scorer doing the timing at our record events) so it is always going to be about judgement. Actually we have two timers. Someone in a post a few months back made an issue about being consistent. That is the issue here, not the rule, or the the old rule or what have you, but consistency"

That is my point EXACTLY. Take more of the "judgement" out of one persons hands. It would seem to me, and again I state I am not accusing ANYONE of cheating. DID YOU SEE THAT IN MY POST? I am simply stating that this seems that it should be rather easy to institute. Easier than judging who the first legal, very subjective, starter is. Not trying to make this hard.

[RuthieRae]

It is easy to institute, so easy infact that we forgot about everything else that follows. That is the main issue, not the rule itself, but the consistency which whether you take the responsibility out of the scorers hand, (sort of .... doesn't really work that way when like I said, the equipment sucks) you still have the issue of consistency over a span of what...50 years. Where is the consistency in changing rules and not revising the other issues that follow those rules....like records? I can't for sure say, like Susan said, that it is 100% cut and dried in either direction, I think it just needs to be looked at because of the change, and the effects those changes can have on everyone. As a racer, I don't care what the rule is, I will follow it, but I do care if we change things, that we take a look at the long term effects. When changing weights, or boat restrictions, motor restrictions, we also must look at the effects those changes will have and we have to take the appropriate action in order for consistency to fall in line. This must also be true for rule changes that affect speed, and in this case because of the issue of records, it does affect the overall speed of one record set ten years ago versus another set today. People have said, well you should have been there at zero so there is no difference, but ten years ago we didn't have to be there at zero ...because the rule stated otherwise....so yes, there is a difference.

[18W]

I agree the way we consider the "start" of a race can affect a record. But does that mean you are asking for the records to be erased as we know them, unless they were set under the current rules?

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Pretty Simple

Clock hand starts moving on the 1 minute, be there at zero or suffer.
I personaly don't remember any other type of starts , since about 1960 or so.

Spectators point of view anyways. This i remember 'cause i have the bad hearing to go with being at the start/finish line. When thay took away the gun , really had to pay attention, could hardly hear that little horn.
RichardKCMo

[888race]

I am lost

When the rule was changed I am sure it was changed for a reason, that no one seems to want to talk about on here .How many times have we heard of someone buying a record paying other peoples entries and having them pull out of the way and allowing a flying start without jeperdizing jumping the gun. As far as it not being a competion record I beg to differ. When I set my CSH record I had to jockey for postion and get a good start , and win the race in order to have a chance at a competion record , other wise I guess you can run kilos there is no clock start. There are not that many people trying to break records not competion records anyhow nor is there that many people capable to do it , not to mention there are only a few record coarse left and it is a pain in the you no what to put one on

[Susan Rautenberg]

hmmm now we are just arguing on my opinion-which is just that--I still revert back to my first posting--either way its not correct the way it sits now--opinion aside as to which rule I prefer. Being from a region that hosts several record races-I know what it takes to put on a record race

[888race]

And me being from the other region

That puts on record races . But I have always wondered why that not that many people come done to set records, never really understood that. not really!!

[18W]

When the rule was changed I am sure it was changed for a reason


That was my thought. Take the "judgement" out of a single persons hands and make it universally simple and not as subjective.

[ricochet112]

How about some FACTS!!

Why was the rule rule changed to, "the timing of a record race starts when the clock hits zero"? The people that say records were bought need to go to more record races and see that that's just not true.

There will always be step-ups at record races to make a class, (example, someone drives half way accross the country and there's only 3 boats in his class, the racer that needs the 4th entry is the one that should be responsible for the entry fee), especially nowadys with entries being down.

I had that problem in 1995, I paid for a 4th entry, that person was slow and stayed on the course the entire time and I had to lap them!!!!

WHY WAS THE RULE CHANGED

Mike Bartlett 112R