Super Nationals

[Hydro doc]

Thunder on Wolf Creek will be a much larger event using our big parking lot. Small events occurring around the race. A car show that draws 100 cars. A huge band stand is constructed to hold two rock bands beginning right after the race. A fireworks show after the sun goes down. We hope to invite USTS classes as well as NBRA Stock and Mod. Classes. A kids area is planned with rides. To join NBRA there is a fifty dollar weekend fee.and you can use it to attend another event to gain full membership. Our rules are very similar to APBA's. We run only one elimination heat to get to the top 12. Our budget is around twenty thousand dollars, the tow money has not been determine. Testing Friday afternoon May 31st races June 1st and second. racing start eleven am. Len Miller 19187911733 f

[DeanFHobart]

Thunder on Wolf Creek will be a much larger event using our big parking lot. Small events occurring around the race. A car show that draws 100 cars. A huge band stand is constructed to hold two rock bands beginning right after the race. A fireworks show after the sun goes down. We hope to invite USTS classes as well as NBRA Stock and Mod. Classes. A kids area is planned with rides. To join NBRA there is a fifty dollar weekend fee.and you can use it to attend another event to gain full membership. Our rules are very similar to APBA's. We run only one elimination heat to get to the top 12. Our budget is around twenty thousand dollars, the tow money has not been determine. Testing Friday afternoon May 31st races June 1st and second. racing start eleven am. Len Miller 19187911733 f

Leonard,

You NBRA guys rock.... wish we lived closer.

Dean Hobart.........

[Graham]

Let's not lose this subject over time. The last post was 9/15 by Dean Hobart. I would have thought that with all this expertise and ideas you would have formulated a PLAN. Well, how about it. Whose leading this?

[johnml390]

#BUMP

[johnml390]

I threw together a bit of a class consolidation idea that I think may work for an event of this stature. I have looked at it as more than just an APBA event though. I looked at it as a culmination of the APBA's (CBF & UIM partially added as well) Junior Outboard, Stock Outboard, Modified Outboard, & Professional Racing Outboard categories (as well as Stock Classic & local classes added in also for added fun), the NBRA, the USTS, & the AOF.

APBA/CBF/UIM (Stock Classic/Local Classes included) = around 75 classes total.
NBRA = 16 classes total.
USTS (Nationals Only Classes included) = 20 classes total.
AOF = 34 classes total.

I consolidated things on a "like for like" speed basis (if classes are within a few MPH of each other on average and could/would compete together competitively, I put them together) and kept alky burning classes separated from gas burners.

Came up with a total of 36 classes once consolidated.

J Runabout
J Hydroplane
Novice Runabout
Novice Hydroplane
A Runabout
A Hydroplane
A2 Runabout
A2 Hydroplane
B Runabout
C1 Hydroplane
B Hydroplane
C Runabout
C Hydroplane
D Runabout
D Hydroplane
E Runabout
E Hydroplane
Two Person F Runabout
F Runabout
F Hydroplane

Vintage C Runabout
Vintage C Hydroplane
125cc Runabout
125cc Hydroplane
175cc Runabout
175cc Hydroplane
250cc Runabout
250cc Hydroplane
350cc Runabout
350cc Hydroplane
500cc Runabout
500cc Hydroplane
700cc Runabout
700cc Hydroplane
1100cc Runabout
1100cc Hydroplane

Might be something to put some thought into. Having ALL the associations/series/federations come together to host such an event. Using a one off class structure to increase field sizes and make for an outstanding show, etc. Could be a great effort for boat racing in general. (If anyone is curious about any of these classes, I can follow up and let you know what exactly is combined with what via this idea. If it's something that you see no way of working.. I'd be all ears of finding a better place to put it.)

[Rex Hall]

You would not need 175 runabout, nobody runs it in Pro.

[hshawwpba]

If I read the classes and do the math it would appear that you will need more than 2 days to run the event.
If you use the 3 heat format that the Pro category runs it would eliminate the need to elimination heats in stock and mod. If you run 1 heat eliminations and then 2 final heats as stock and mod normally do (except at nationals they run 2 elimination heats) that expands the program out farther.
Here is what I see based on looking at time to run heats and number of classes and needed elimination heats.
36 classes time to run 3 lap heats with no delays is 9 min. with 75% of heats having eliminations would be a total of 16.2 hours needed each day to run all classes.
Unless you have a lighted track not sure there would be enough daylight to get all classes done in 2 days!
Plus you need to consider your support staff ( rescue, scores, inspector, ambulance staff) not sure they would sign up for a 16 hour day!
If you run the Pro format 3 heat for all classes that would eliminate any need for elimination heats then you have 108 heats and based on 9 min. per heat and no delays ( anyone that has run a race knows there is no such thing as no delays) the time needed to run all classes would be 14.8 hours per day!
Might get this done if you start at 6 am and run non stop until 8:30 pm each day but that would be a tall task!
I think you could easily do it in a 3 day format but you would still be looking at long racing day each day.
I like the idea and it would be a very cool thing to do if the 3 divisions could agree on format (that would be a big change for the stock group) based on what they normally run at national events.

Just my thoughts on this great idea I am sure someone will maybe see something I have missed or have a improved format idea to share on this. I hope it can be worked out it would be great for the sport and fans to watch if progressive thinking can occur!

What a great site you have proposed with all the other activities going on it would be a must attend event in my mind!

[DiGia54D]

it would be 4-5 days... No nationals is a 2 day event

[pav225]

Cool ideas John. Would you mind adding which motors could run in each class?
Thanks!
- Mike

[DeanFHobart]

Just a comment... and this has been discussed previously....... With that many classes, is there enough time between a Monday and Saturday or Sunday?

[johnml390]

I thoroughly believe that the event could be run off in 3 days. 36 classes split between 3 days would put 12 classes per day. Allow testing during the week leading up to the race. Start racing on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday around 10am and race until 5pm if needed. Keep ALL classes running under a 2 heat final/3 lap format. If eliminations are needed.. run them the same day as the class’ finals are scheduled to eliminate a lot of motor swaps, etc. Maybe looking at a new elimination format would help save some time as well. It can be done. Would just have to have a little give and take from everyone to make it successful.

As far as 175cc Runabout. I’d say schedule it. If no one showed up to run it. Fine. But have it there just in case as it IS a legal class that could run. Allow all legal 125cc Runabouts to step up and run the class also and you never know.. could end up having the guys show up to run after all with the promise of a decent field.

[DiGia54D]

John, there is no such class as 175 runabout. That's why Rex said not to worry about them. I like what you are trying to do and would be bad ass if you get it to happen. I think in the near future you need to get on the phone with Todd Brinkman with your idea.

[johnml390]

I know that it isn't raced but according to the USTS Rule Book it is still a class that can be run (for the USTS only of course.) I know it's no longer a class in the APBA though. But still would be cool to have it raced. I'm sure it wouldn't take much convincing to get this class to be participated in at a event such as what we are discussing. If not.. shorter schedule and more time saved. So it works out. Haha.

This post has been great. I'm really hoping that something can come from these discussions. For the greater good of all of us.

[johnml390]

Cool ideas John. Would you mind adding which motors could run in each class?
Thanks!
- Mike

What’s your email? My next available time I’m near a computer I’ll email you the little sheet I typed up while looking at all of this. (Not certain how to post it here as I’m not the most computer savvy person at times. Haha.)

[johnml390]

Bumping this back to the top.

[Nuch9f]

Nationals have been run in the 70 deys with over 800 entires.They rain eliminations finales on Saturday and Sunday.

[Bob Rusnak]

[QUOTE=Nuch9f;n467240]Nationals have been run in the 70 deys with over 800 entires.They rain eliminations finales on Saturday and Sunday.


I remember those days, don't think we will ever get back to the amount of entries. There were J,A,B,C,D in Hydro and runabout period. Again, we did not have as many different classes as we have now with few boats in them. Winning a national championship really meant something.

[dil/viller]

a simple thought from a simple mind, clubs are working hard at getting new racers to join in the sport. Some / most classes are struggling to even get to the 3 and 4 boats needed to race. Stock and Mod classes / drivers [ mostly the larger ones ] are appreciative when we see the class will race for the day. So, lot's of classes and a few boats in each is where we are at these day's. From my perspective [ being a current member of the one patch gang ], winning a national championship [ regardless of the boat count ] does means something.

[Bob Rusnak]

I have said this before but if you can't get 12 boats in a final class no National Championship should be awarded. It should be up to the drivers to make sure there are enough boats in their own class. There is a big difference being crowned winning with 30 boats than winning with 6 boats. Just my opinion.

[T Chance]

I thoroughly believe that the event could be run off in 3 days. 36 classes split between 3 days would put 12 classes per day. Allow testing during the week leading up to the race. Start racing on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday around 10am and race until 5pm if needed. Keep ALL classes running under a 2 heat final/3 lap format. If eliminations are needed.. run them the same day as the class’ finals are scheduled to eliminate a lot of motor swaps, etc. Maybe looking at a new elimination format would help save some time as well. It can be done. Would just have to have a little give and take from everyone to make it successful.

As far as 175cc Runabout. I’d say schedule it. If no one showed up to run it. Fine. But have it there just in case as it IS a legal class that could run. Allow all legal 125cc Runabouts to step up and run the class also and you never know.. could end up having the guys show up to run after all with the promise of a decent field.

We plan on running two 125 Runabouts next year plus we have two 175 motors. A two cylinder 175 is so much more forgiving than a single cylinder 125. Given a choice we would run the 175.

[thetrailergod]

Pineville La, perfect spot for this