APBA Modified Outboard Ballot Proposals

[brian]

Mer1--- I think this is a slippery issue, but here is my answer. I think any racer with intent to race the class and or who plans to race the class should get a vote. (My view would allow a lot of fraudulent voting) When I look at the 750r list of drivers. I see a lot of people used to sign a petition to get a rule change with little or no history or plans to ever race the class. I just would ask people to support the class not a person in the class. Racing a boat once to vote is a conscience issue not a rules issue. You have a right to vote if you paid entry...you also have a right to not vote if you know your are being used to pass a rule you never will be effected by.

Your issue is simple race 850r...what class did you end up racing? I add 25lb to my kids j rig. My wife adds 32lb to her 200h ride...I can not say her weight...😘 Ask some of the 302stock what they have to add. It is racing. It is what we do.

[Merc1]

I put my mod stuff on the shelf a couple years ago and went Pro racing. I am going to run 350/700/1100 runabout this year, there are basically 3 rules.... correct CC's, 13ft minimum length boat and have fun!

[brian]

I like that idea too but my pocketbook does not...lol

[Val16E]

My husband, Steve, and I are both excited to run 750 and 850 this year. The drive home may be long depending on who wins =) but Steve is a brand new driver and we are excited to grow the class!

[brian]

I saw the new ride....I might suggest better safety gear next time. But you guys looked fantastic. I race with my wife and son. Watching my son no problem...wife is a bit harder. It is well worth it. Good luck with your new family.

[Danny Pigott]

Mod outboard came to APBA in 1972, before that it was in NOA and was called American Professional ( AM PRO )Here are the weights in 1977. Now were the drivers stronger back then to lift the boats, remember we did not use boat carts . Someone said these new boats would grow the class how is a 5,000 plus boat going to do that, a lot of folks will quit because they can't afford a boat, look at what happen to C,D,F Pro when the Cap boats came along .. DMH and EMH (44)were 440 when I ran them, I had my boat builder build my boats heavy enough for my weight the last one I bought weighed 443 with me in it ready to race. I was a multi National Champion with them. so here are the weights from 1977' AH 340,BH 360,CH 430, DH (40) 440, EH (44) 440. AR 340, BR 390, CR 480, DR 490, ER (44) 490 There was no FE (850) at this time. This is just info that I have I just don't understand why they would want to take the weights off the boats, it would just cost more $$'

[STEVE FRENCH]

I received my APBA Modified Outboard ballot in the mail today. There are many proposals covering different aspects of APBA Modified Outboard. Please take the time to consider each proposal carefully as the APBA Modified Commission worked hard to develop each one. Some of these proposals will help us keep our old motors running stronger than ever. While others are measures of inclusiveness to keep older racers deeply involved in the classes they love and support. Your investment of time is now needed.

Thank you in advance,

Jeff Williams
APBA Modified Commissioner & Chief Inspector

Jeff thinking of coming back to AMH........ If the OMC mag OK'd for 20H...... Been in contact with Mike T......... Not seeing proposal and not joining to find out....... Please post proposal or a link?....... On the fence and waiting to go to Jessup........AMH if I can run CDI......... see ya at franklin in DSH only if not..... Sold the Hot-Rod and Looking to run with Tom S but points in a 20H are "Pointless" ?......

[Jeff5P]

Steve, The Mike T proposal passed by the commission is now a ballot issue for the members of the 250 classes. Ballots due back 03/29. I hope it passes. FYI - This is the ignition complete proposed by Mike, that is the old sidewinder ignition with the cast iron flywheel machined by Ed Runne. As soon as I hear results, I'll post.

[Bob Rusnak]

The 750 class was almost dying and was brought back to life several years ago. One of the efforts was to build the class over again and part of it was eliminating the weights. This bought out a good turnout on drivers building on the rules that were in place at that time. Some where along the line some felt necessary to change the rules to suit their needs. Now many are having trouble adding the required lead to be legal. What is the difference between 850 with no weight and now 750 with weight limits. It has been mentioned on this post as why would anyone build a light boat. Well these boats were built before the weights were added. We no longer support the class, was fun for a while. Adding 80 lb. of lead does not sound like being safe or fun. As mentioned by some in this post, just run 850 and be done with it. Since we did not join APBA this year we can not vote on the rule so my input does not mean anything. Just my opinion.

[dil/viller]

I am sure most ballots have been cast by now for the petitioned weight change in 750R. As always a post from another raises different thoughts/opinions on the past and future. Writing this from actual experience I am comfortable in disagreeing with the Bob Rus [ who I have great respect for and enjoy B.S.ing with when I see him in depue ]. However, in region 7, 750R grew because a few rum dumbs decided to throw their mercs on the transom of a runabout as another class to enjoy sharing the piped music with any spectators that were on the banks. We at that time were using older Krier and Zorkin boats. Then ,due to the unselfish sharing of boat plans from George L. more joined the class. At this time I believe the newest composite tech was not being used and the weights of the boats were all pretty close. [ this included the west coast molded runabout, just forgot what it was.] So, even though there was not a weight in the class at this time the rumbling from the pits was this new technology was being used and much lighter boats were being built. This was going to reduce the weight by 40# or more. Hence the weight issue was addressed as a proposal [ not a one race by some loaded petition] for a couple of seasons failing to pass. Yes, then it passed and those with the newest builds were unhappy. Understandable. [ some quit ] . I reckon since some of us elders still would like to be somewhat competitive and run at the front of the pack we look at the new tech [ 40 to 50" lighter ]as being detrimental to our clubs participation not as a incentive to start. [cost alone, and safety]. So at some point we will also face the question to continue or not. In closing I would write if these expressed thoughts from this supporter [not athletic] of the DMR [ old school ] bother someone , [that hasn't or only raced last season to assist in changing a rule], only the future will show the result of yet another change.

[fcliff]

A question comes to mind. If the 750 weight proposal should pass and we loose a number of 750R drivers in our club and wish to allow 500Rs to step up to make the class, will they have to weigh the heavier 500 weight or would they be allowed to race at the lower 750 weight?

[Matt Dagostino]

FYI................all the ballot results for MOD/PRO etc. were posted on the APBA main site 4/5/16 by Cindy at headquarters. Rules go into effect 30 days from date of publication one would assume!

[brian]

I am very sad boat racers in the 750R class and other members who jumped in a boat to sign a petition and stuff a ballot box. I will post the names of the petition signers and I will update on their 16-17 racing year. Please do not ask me for help until you explain your ethics to me. This post is about sportsmanship, friendship, and ethics. The good news is I got a chance to teach my son about sportsmanship and ethics. No rules were broken...is sad explanation.

[Matt Dagostino]

Hey Brian..............this past weekend in 30 degree weather we were out testing our new 750mr outfit with 4 drivers who will be competing in the class including a brand new APBA member who registered in MOD as his primary division! The weight reduction will help not just our crew but other drivers who weigh 200 pounds or less by greatly reducing the added ballast to the 21st century boats! Oh, and at a boat race we put ethics/politics aside and always help a fellow boat racer at a race lifting or whatever. So if you need a hand don't be shy, we will help, no questions asked.

[brian]

Matt,
I am happy you are promoting our sport...even more so my class and the modified division.

Your ethics statement is crazy. You got in a boat, signed a pitition to change a rule the membership voted in the year before and then voted in a class you have never raced. You never even crossed the finish line. Your ethics are clear.

Sorry Matt... my ethics and sportsmanship don't stop at the shore line. You just admitted yours ends at the shore line...sorry Matt. You were wrong. Some times it is better to just say sorry and don't do it again. The mod membership voted on the same ballot to call what was going down a shady act overwhelmingly. 13 people signed the petition 13 people voted for it. Of those 13 who signed the pitition who only raced once? Better yet who has only raced 750r once in their life? I know...

Again, I dont have a problem with the will of the class. I never complained or even proposed a weight limit in the class. I just supported the idea with facts and reasons of competitiveness. I never wanted people to say weight was added for me. Now we can clearly say weight was taken out for the few who stuffed the ballot box. There is no logic to the weight. Less than 500R and 10-15 faster..... Laughable.

[dholt]

If you look at the class high points, 21 of the 32 participants raced 3 times or less. That's a pretty poor statistic. More than half the class could be labeled "ballot box stuffers."
Seems like it needs a jump start of some kind...because whatever has been going on the past few years isn't working. And it's probably more than just 1 factor. Curious to see how participation changes with this weight reduction.

[mercguy]

with the new rules for voting.............no more 1 and done is going to happen......has to be 2 separate races (events).........cannot be on the same weekend or include Nationals

[brian]

Now you have to give them two rides. It just adds to the cost of stuffing the ballot box. How about this question...did these one and done pay entry fees? Or was it a free ride for votes? The sad part is you have 3/4 of a small class feeling like the 1/4 rule it. Not a good feeling. We need more racers in the class for sure but this issue was not to get more racers. No one who gets in my boat for a ride cares about the weight added. They go OMG that was awesome.

[18W]

Unless you only race the Nationals and have an elimination race and a final. There are your 2 races.

[brian]

I hope it changes for the good...there are boats and motors out there. We did not get a chance to see if weights helped or hurt. The stats say it helped....lol

2014----17 racers. No weights
2015----32 racers weight limits. (6 were pure ballot stuffers)

I bet next year the number is less than 32.🙁

[Bob Dunlap]

We need to get the class back to where it should be and has been for years with no weights!!! This made the class grow. I only raced one race last year, I won't race with those ridiculous weights like we had last year, guess that makes me a ballot stuffer. And by the way Brian I know Matt has raced 750 before, he drove one of my boats a year or two ago.

[brian]

So do you get to vote in his classes too? The simple point is he was put in a boat to change a class rule he does not race. No one has raced this class more than me the last 10 years. Sorry Bob the numbers were flat with no weights...not gaining. I hope you come back and race. If you can keep saying paper light boats are the way to go with all of your crashes...more power to you and yours. I wish I was as fast as you, but I will just keep using my old style wood boat and finishing races. See you at Dayton.

Ps. Last year with weights we had more racers than we had in years.

[ram95]

I'm with Bob. And, 32 racers in all of APBA(??).... what a joke. A sad testimony to the inability to grow the class. Take a look at the ages of the 32 racers. Safety is always a valid concern. But, so is cost. Especiall down here at the 'grass-roots' level. Another factor I think gets lost in the shuffle, is knowing that you yourself can build a boat out of wood and epoxy that is both strong and light weighing about 115 pounds. Add the weight of the legal engine for 750H or R (130 pounds), plus rigging etc (15 pounds) and you have 260. Make that what we put on the scales - sans driver. Than add the healthy weight for lets say an 18 to 32 year old (172) and you end up with 438. This to me seems like the intelligent way to come up with a weight for a class without putting the driver into the boat on the scales. What's the problem here? It's almost the same as saying no weight; except the cost of a carbon fiber boat is pretty prohibitive and building it in your basement is a stretch.