APBA Modified Outboard Ballot Proposals

[Jeff5P]

I received my APBA Modified Outboard ballot in the mail today. There are many proposals covering different aspects of APBA Modified Outboard. Please take the time to consider each proposal carefully as the APBA Modified Commission worked hard to develop each one. Some of these proposals will help us keep our old motors running stronger than ever. While others are measures of inclusiveness to keep older racers deeply involved in the classes they love and support. Your investment of time is now needed.

Thank you in advance,

Jeff Williams
APBA Modified Commissioner & Chief Inspector

[Matt Dagostino]

It appears the deadline to vote is March 29th. When will the new ballot items go into effect if passed?? I assume not in time for Jesup or Tabor City????

Matt and Val

[ram95]

Hey.. relax. I just gave the Donald a call. He's in touche with Mark and they're going to pull the whole ballot and go with my proposal as entered below. Have a nice day. We just got whacked with 7 inches of snow - but it's melting fast.

[Moon child]

Jeff/Matt,

Is it possible to get an electronic copy of the ballot so I can email it in. I am offshore bringing a ship down to Trinidad and will not be ashore before the deadline. I guess a scanned copy would work and I could email it to anyone who could submit it on my behalf.

Thanks,
Dave

[Matt Dagostino]

Dave..............if you have a cell call headquarters and ask. Cindy/Sabrina are there 9-5pm EST. 586-773-9700. I am not sure they accept anything but hard copies???

[Dust33]

-four photos attached (2mod + 2pro);
....doesn't exactly answer your question...but, might help in the time being (?).

[Moon child]

Thanks, I will see if I can get an original emailed from APBA on Monday

[fcliff]

Proposing 450 pounds for 750 Runabout? 65 lbs less that stock, 50 lbs less than NBRA, 30 less than C Mod, 25 less than C stock???? What are we trying to accomplish here? In the IOA club the lightest rig would be 50 lbs over. Very hard to be competitive like that.

[burl11]

Do the modern lightweight materials only work in one class? If this is the reason, then why not lower weights for all classes? Just asking....

[kampenracing]

I had a new boat bulit two years ago by Kelly Kidwell. It is for D and E classes. It is made of wood and carbon fiber. It weighed without hardware and paint 114lbs. This was as light as he could build it and still feel comfortable with it staying together. He charges $5,000 a boat.

[ram95]

We want to Grow this sport..., Really? Look around: See Bob Dunlap... See Steve Dunn... See Brian Palmquist.. See Jeff Williams... See Scott Clark... See Geo Luce.. see Howie Nichols... See 'Moi' (me).. I don't know about them, but I'm headed for 73! So.., just WHO are we hoping to GROW into our sport anyway.?

Seems like our mind is made up and we just don't want to be confused by 'the facts'. Forget age for a moment. Let's actually consider some other facts, like BMI (Body Mass Index) because it relates to weight as well as age. Here's the formula: Multi-ply your height times your height, then divide your weight by that, then multiply that number by 703. For example: The average 16 yr old weighs 155 and is 68 inches tall so: 68 x 68 = 4624 divide it by 155lbs = .0335207 multiply that by 703. It equals 23.5 (call that BMI). BMI between 25-30 is considered over weight. For an adult, a BMI over 30 is considered obese. Yeah.., I've already heard the argument about how kids today... people today... blah blah all weigh more.. blah blah.

Now let's talk about those paperbag boats that just fall apart in front of us in turn one. When's the last time that happened? And, if it did, the boat was probably a wore-out POS that the weightpak tore loose and went thru a chine. Boats today average 105 pounds out-of-the-jig; they are quite strong, built using WOOD and EPOXY. My O'Connor D is 8 years old, weighed 112 at birth, it's ALL wood. You do not need to have a composite boat to win with. You need the right prop (Dewald!!) and the ability to make a good start. We're not talking Kilo records here.

Growing the sport means getting younger folks into it. Not carrying lead for overweight folks with lousy props, poor engines, warped bottoms, and the on-set of dementia, so they can compete.. Yeah I heard you wise-guys out there.. HAHAHA D-mentia... hahahaa. Get Bent!!

[brian]

How about we only let racers who race the class 4 times or more vote? If you want no weight race 850r. Why is this so hard to get? Vote and be done. What if my wife is the only one that can race my boat to make weight? I guess I have my 125lb driver. I will just be a j dad and RV driver. Lol. I will still enjoy racing. Please don't flame the thread just vote.

[ram95]

So, let's see here. If I have EQUIPMENT running in D-Mod, I can vote? What if that EQUIPMENT IS just a steering system? Can I still vote? How about if I just provided the exhaust system? Is that considered equipment. Exactly what defines the word EQUIPMENT. I just want to be sure so i don't get sent to N.Korea or someplace.

[dil/viller]

Some work hard to continue the close competitive racing. This makes for spectator excitement. Others continue to push for costly modern day technology which in the region 7 area will not , not , not increase the growth of this class [750r] if the proposal passes [ done by petition within the current rules , and a bit of 1 race entries ] but will diminish the participant level. The choice to continue if no longer competitive due to the cost of this new technology [ boats ] will be made clear if the reduced weight is passed, just like Bob did when the current rule was put in play. Facing reality, I guess when we reach the age of S.S. and the continued expense to enjoy a hobby, repeat, a hobby [ not due to new motors or motor spec's ], but the cost of technology is smacking us in the face we choose between beer [ only during Happy hour ] [well maybe more] or sometimes traveling hundreds of miles to attempt winning a nationals. So, technology , will not increase or grow the class , but will serve to enhance those that have the monies . The lowest cost for a newby to start racing this class or for those that have enjoyed the friendships from the past will keep the class alive. Vote for the current rule to remain as is. 23w .

[ram95]

Whoa... as noble as this sounds, something is not quite clear. Are we saying that the NEWBY has to choose between [1] Building a sled for a boat to will make weight. Or, [2] loading down a nice lightweight boat with a couple of manhole covers. Or, [3] pigging out at Elmer Fudpuckers and drinking Big Gulps to BULK-UP... so that us BIG GUYS won't get beat? That what we're sayin here?

[larry terzinski]

This weight reduction proposal as far as I'm concerned is wrong! These year by year politics have to stop! We as a class just voted on weight last year and rejected a 25lb reduction. If a few of you think this will help this class I'm one that disagrees. The new style boats have helped class participation and many build there own rigs and not out of 2x4s and 1/4nch plywood. Rediculous statement!! Now you want to force guys to basically start over to try and stay competitive. Now I see you pricing drivers out of class!! This will change driver participation and more likely at races where you don't want it to happen. Don't come back and say weight doesn't make a difference if you do your homework. If that was the case we wouldn't be going through this AGAIN!!!! NO TO 450#

[ram95]

Really? So.. 53 years ago [when were you born?] when I was 18 racing a Sid Flip-craft and weighing about 162wet.., I don't even think we had a weight rule. Of course, back then, there were very few people who were overweight racing boats. The only thing slowing you down then was the size of the balls you were given to play with. And, back themn the 36 Class is where old guys congregated. We hadn't discovered D-Mentia yet. They're about all gone now, rest their porpoising-souls.

If we really want to simplify things here's how weights should be for runabouts and hydro:
[1] A,15, class - boat as rigged/raced, including motor, un-drainable water, without driver: Weight 190lbs
[2] B, 20 class - configuration same as A: Weight: 200lbs
[3] C class - configuration same as A: Weight: 200lbs
[4] D class - configuration same as A: Weight 250lbs

This way a wood or composite construction could be used. Nobody would have to carry weight except for what they stuck in their stomachs or under their belts. Young and old would be healthier. And, fewer people would suffer hernias getting boats in and out of the water and onto scales.

[John Schubert]

You are incorrect Ram 95 about weights 53 years ago. There were overall weights in all Stock Classes, boat/motor/driver & residue fuel.

[modhydro]

Funny comment about not 1955 any more. If that is the case why not address engines as well. It has been voted time and time again to stick with the 1955 technology for engines, why not boats as well? Why pick and choose which things you think are "modern."

Now some real "debate" can get going.

Just throwing some gas on the fire!

Steve Roskowski

[ram95]

Way to go Steve. Maybe we should start another thread... how about this: Why would a person want to run 750 Mod?

[modhydro]

An innocent question on weights. If the weight for a class is XXX pounds, why would anyone build a boat that far under weight? Why not add a bit more structure to make it even stronger and stiffer?

Steve

[ram95]

Innocent answer - this is racing. Racing is all about performance. Performance and weight. What would you rather drive.. a Z06 Corvette or that 59 Oldsmobile (like your Dad had)... you know, the car with 7 inch dia. drum brakes.

[Harold8]

Someone builds a boat that's so light it doesn't fit the rules without a lot of lead, so they want to change the rules to fit their boat. Why not just make the boat to fit the rules as they are?

[ram95]

Part of the reason is that the boat can run in other classes where the weight is less. Besides the fact that lightweight equals less inertia, which translates to better handling. Note for those of you who subscribe to heavier equates to better, I did not say better ride. And, today we all know that epoxy allows for extremely strong yet lightweight wooden boat construction. Besides that, LEAD is expensive and iron plates, etc are hard to secure becoming dangerous all by themselves.

[Bob Rusnak]

These boats were built before there were weights in the class.

[Bob Rusnak]

Just eliminate 750 and make it one class 850. Run three heats of racing. Just my opinion.
Reason, we had bought a complete new rig under the original no weight required. Some where along the lines, the rules were changed. Are they going to add weights to the 850 class at some time? Just asking. N-96

[ram95]

Whoa!!! Now we're cooking. Let's not dump 750 let's DUMP WEIGHT in 750... AND run it in 850. The 850 folks will love the competition, plus you can still run in 750 without having to put all that weight back into the boat. Talk about a win win situation.

Of course, if you did do that you'd find yourselves running in 850 along with RAM50's running zero weight, 4 blade props at any height, any gear ratio, and nitrous.... so you'd better bring yer lunch.

[DiGia54D]

This 750 class is great, Every other year its a new weight..Up then down then back up to back down. Maybe just get the guys/gals that raced 750 the past 3-4 years figure out whats best for that class.

[brian]

For the record you drove this class one time? Will you be voting on a new rule? Matt?

[DiGia54D]

I cant vote on a class I don't run, or wouldn't should i say. I am just saying this weight rule has changed so fast you can still find the old posts and complaints on this site.

[brian]

So you did not sign the petition and you do not plan to vote? Thank you for not ballot stuffing for a class you don't drive. If you do as you represent here.

You have a right to vote. Just so you know. You registered for the class. Votes are sealed...petitions are not.

[brian]

In the last 12 years I think I have represented the 750r class well. I have been a top 6 or 7 driver in the class every year but the years we had a baby and bought our home.(3rd this year) In any given year I am faster than some, slower than some, I finish 2nd-3rd a lot and usually win a race or two if I am lucky. I work hard to get my large butt around the track and I hope people would say I love the sport more than any win or trophy. As a crew chief in the 200h class weight is 10 more important than this class and we run 5lb over to always make weight. Katie jokes all of the time she has to work harder than me for a win. All of the boats are about the same speed and the slowest boat sometimes wins when they get a great start. I say this because I love the sport. You will enjoy racing more when competition is level. This is why we have classes. Please vote in the class you race in not the class you got a ride in. If you race the class imagine winning by a half lap and going up to your next competitor and hugging them saying great race! Now do the same after 3 laps of deck to deck racing. With level racing you and the fans are winners. Please vote to keep the current class weights.

[Tim Weber]

Brian,

If the proposal passes then you can run 500R. At 480 it will be the big boy class. That's so ridiculous.

We all know physics doesn't apply to boat racing. Why not just go the way of the Pro stuff and have no weight at all.

Tim

[brian]

Thank you Tim. I love racing. I will race what ever the rule change is. This is not a rule for me this is a rule for the class. I just hope people who care about there sport to do the right thing.

However... There is more to the story than meets the eye. If you know a boat racer who drove 1 race and then votes in the class rules for a friend they should no longer be your friend.

[Merc1]

Brian, this is a serious question. In your opinion, How many races do you need to participate in for your vote to count? I see 32 people gave the class a try but only 11 raced more than 3 times all season.... I do not care which way the vote goes, I have moved on from this class as I am only 170lb guy and didn't want to add 40 lbs of lead or build a new boat.