APBA Annual Meeting Agenda

[888race]

that was change for a good reason

I think it is a great rule

[dholt]

Start rule

How in the wide world of sports could you possibly start timing a race when the first legal boat crosses the line???? How would you possible know with the naked eye which boat is exactly the first legal? With gun jumpers and starts that are reviewed by video, it sometimes takes a lap just to figure out who was legal.

It's insane not to start timing the race when the clock hits zero.

[dholt]

Stock Agenda Item

Stock Outboard Hall of Champions
Class Participation Guideline


The Problem

Under current stock outboard rules, there is no guideline for minimum class participation in order for a class to receive "Hall of Champion" points for winning a National High Point championship. For example, if a class has only 10 boats in the country, the National High Point winner receives the same amount of "Hall" points as a National High Point winner in a class with 100 boats. It is not an unfair assumption that winning a high point title competing against 99 other drives is much harder than beating out 9 other drivers.
This inequity in class participation can also have an impact on the competition to win the Waldman and Menzies Awards. It is much easier to rack up points in a class with few participants as opposed to those with 60,70, or more competitors.

The Solution

Under current rules, there ARE minimum boat totals for classes to receive "Hall" points at the Closed Course Nationals, Winter Nationals, Divisionals and Record Runs. I propose a minimum total of national participation for a class to receive National High Point "Hall of Champion" points.
Here are the 2005 stock outboard class participation totals:

ASR- 72
BSR- 27
CSR- 93
DSR- 16
25SSR- 71
ASH- 96
BSH- 31
CSH- 140
DSH- 42
25SSH- 36
20SSH- 123
45SST- 24


I propose a system that rewards a class with "Hall of Champion" points for National High Points based on levels of participation.

1-29 participants = 2 points
30-59 participants = 3 points
60-89 participants = 4 points
90 and above participants = 5 points


Participation totals will be tallied at the end of the racing year to determine eligibility for the racing season just completed. A participant will be defined as a driver who has made a bona fide start in at least one (1) race AND scored points in the class.

[14-H]

I propose all 4 outboard catagories ask the Race Management Committee to reinstate the old start rule where the timing starts when the first legal boat crosses the starting line.

We do it every year.

[14-H]

How in the wide world of sports could you possibly start timing a race when the first legal boat crosses the line???? How would you possible know with the naked eye which boat is exactly the first legal? With gun jumpers and starts that are reviewed by video, it sometimes takes a lap just to figure out who was legal.

It's insane not to start timing the race when the clock hits zero.

That's the way it has always been done until just a few years ago. Car races and their time trials also start when the cars cross the start finish line not when the starter begins the race.

[14-H]

***

1-29 participants = 2 points
30-59 participants = 3 points
60-89 participants = 4 points
90 and above participants = 5 points


***

I think that this is an excellent idea. However, it ought to work off of percentages of the entire category membership so that the exact numbers are not known until the end of the year. Otherwise, you'll have people putting J drivers in boats to cross the start-finish line at the last race of the year just to get the numbers up if they are close.

[dholt]

Starts & HOC

Yes, I can see how auto racing can time their races when the first car hits the start line. With electronic timing technology...that's easy. But not in kneeldown boat racing. No way any scorer could determine which boat, in a sea of spray and crowd of other boats, actually was the first to hit the line legally.


As for my HOC High Points proposal...please add this idea if the first plan fails.

1-39 participants= 3 points
40-79 participants= 4 points
80 and above= 5 points

Some may view my first proposal as too restrictive. This is an alternative. And maybe this is more fair. Please let's just get something done...as the current system is pretty unfair. This should be looked at for Mod as well.

As for working off a percentage...that could get pretty complicated. I don't see too many 'J' kids getting tossed in 20 hydros to make the numbers. Only classes that could happen in are ASH, ASR, BSH, BSR. If guys needed the numbers...which already happens for points in individual races, they'd put an adult in there.

[G Stillwill]

Its a good idea as its a fair way of adding the Special awards given. Its also hard for the lower partisapting classes to even get high points as either there isnt enough boats to run that class at a race or not enough to get points if you do get to race and some of the classes its even hard to get in 15 races in for the year.

[bill boyes]

I propose all 4 outboard catagories ask the Race Management Committee to reinstate the old start rule where the timing starts when the first legal boat crosses the starting line.

Question,
Why do you want this?

[pro350hydro]

Question,
Why do you want this?

As the rule is now, the driver has to nail the clock almost dead on to break some of these tight records. So if the rule was when the first legal boat crossed the line, they can stick out some field fillers that will cross 10 seconds late (to make a legal heat) and the driver going for the record can hit the clock safetly 2-3 seconds late and get a perfect start on the clock to break records.

In my opinion getting a perfect or near perfect start is part of breaking records. Breaking records is not easy, and should not be.

Just my 2 cents

[ryan_4z]

As the rule is now, the driver has to nail the clock almost dead on to break some of these tight records. So if the rule was when the first legal boat crossed the line, they can stick out some field fillers that will cross 10 seconds late (to make a legal heat) and the driver going for the record can hit the clock safetly 2-3 seconds late and get a perfect start on the clock to break records.

In my opinion getting a perfect or near perfect start is part of breaking records. Breaking records is not easy, and should not be.

Just my 2 cents

I think that that is the reason that the rule was changed. Considering that these are "cometition" records, and starting is part of the competition, then I also think that the rule as is makes getting records more fair, and makes them more important. I would be for leaving the rule as is.

[AOFoffice]

I think that anyone who thinks the rule should be changed back should time a race once. The timer is human. Humans make mistakes. By starting a race when the human timer sees or thinks he/she sees the boat cross the imaginary start line, leaves a lot of margin for error. By having a clock set up that starts the timing of the race when the clock strikes zero, takes out one of the equations of human error. We still need to work on a more accurate than human finish receptor. I know that all of our scorers are very hard workers, but I know that if for some reason my finger doesn't work as fast as it should or can't because the boats are too close, etc, there is room for error margin. Not to mention once when I fell alseep or something on the start and the race was one lap into it befoe I pushed any button. (Just kidding, but making a point).
We need to keep the rule as it is, plus work on a transponder system that records finishes better than a human can.
Connie

[888race]

ryan

That is why I would have changed the rule that was the rumor anyway.when I broke the CSH 1 mile record it was a clock start and I am sure it was as you guys call it a tight record. The start is one of the most important parts of the race as we all know ,if you don't want to use the clock as a start then run a lamans start or run the kilos

[bill boyes]

That is my point. Even if the sandbagging does not take place it is very easy to start the clock on a gun jumper. By starting the time when the clock reaches zero is by far the better way and takes the guessing out of who was the first legal boat by the Timer. 99.9% of our races are non-record. How many races are determined on time at any given race day? If the timer starts the time on a gun jumper how would that effect the outcome? Hard to say. But it could. However, by starting the time when the clock reaches zero that factor is eliminated. Last month Region 11 had our last race of the season at Oroville record 1 & 1/4 and 3/4 mile course. after working on the Judges stand both days I'am convinced the starting the time when the clock reaches zero is the better way.
NOW all those for the old way " starting the time when the first boat crosses the starting line" SPEAK UP. Tell us why.
May need a new Thread for this.

[DougMc]

Jsh

A rule suggesting the JSH and JSR run first race of the day. This way they always get to run and get a shot at the best water and least wind of the day.