Dyno test Bass / Engine

[Steve Johnson]

O.K. I'll start,
What were the results and where does this engine stand?
Steve

[cg43]

O.K. I'll start,
What were the results and where does this engine stand?
Steve

Yes we were wondering the same. We have one of these in nbra but don't know where we stand as to racing with other organizations.

[proprider]

DSH competitor

I would also like to know. I enjoy this class, started racing in this class, and have returned to this class. Where does the future stand for 2006 and beyond? No results or chatter about this Tohatsu testing? Sounds like Dave Scott(according to posts the last 6 months) is looking for alternatives for his racing fix. Should I just put my engine away for future collectors and just go back to racing only mods? Pretty WEAK to drive all the way to New York to eliminate 1 boat and no elims in Dayton? Just trying to decide where my future investments in boatracing will go. Can anybody help steer me in the right direction. Plans are on the jig for a future DSH boat but not sure it is the right move. Decent participation in the midwest but the national level sucks.
Wayless Joe 2-H

[Steve Johnson]

Is there anyone OUT THERE?

Hey ho, Whats The dilly 'O ?
My powers of observation lead me to believe the bass has been approved?
Whats the Offical Word?
Steve

[17W]

It's In......

Well it's been approved...I am awaiting the dyno sheets to be forwarded to me.

Anyone w/the "Offical" details care to elaborate?

[ryan_4z]

Not Official Info, but...

The Bass engine is still legal in D Stock. As far as I know, there was no vote on the status of this motor. As it stands right now, the motor is legal until a vote is taken to remove it. I also understand that this motor was shown to have more HP than the Merc. Why it is going to be allowed into a class where there are currently available motors is beyond me. Especially considering that if it has more HP it shouldn't be difficult to start beating Mercs with this motor. As far as I am concerned this is not the situation we want to put ourselves in with a D class that is currently in a position to start growing again with the Merc 44. If we are making the decision to switch motors, then that is what must be done. But I certainly don't see that happening at all. What it looks like to me is that the commission is going to try to achieve parity between these two motors. Well, leaving that up to our commission is a joke. We have seen no evidence to support the idea that this motor is the future of the D class. And with some kind of production(even if it may be limited) of the Merc, I read this as the commission giving a big middle finger to Dave Scott, who they supported in his endeavor to re-manufacture the Merc 44.

[ANZANI-QUINCY FREAK]

Is It Not Time To Get With The Technology Of The Times?

With all due respect to everyone with a so-called stock racing D Merc as a sport we have failed to move with the times. I heard this same thing when Merc 55Hs were subjected to the newer 44Xs and now its with the Tohatsu D. So it makes more horsepower and its a looper and not a deflector. Everyone talked to death the concept of opening the class up to stock block and stock cowled engines in that displacement range with a universal fit water level exhaust and universal fit gearcase to go with it. That would open the class up to a lot and kill the blue printing going on and make it a real D-Stock class where you have to have it available to the public and parts off the shelf without modifications because then blue printing would go wild again. I feel for Dave Scott and his efforts to keep the Merc 44X in competition. Problem is that its further away from Mercury and unsupported already and people are generally fed up with supporting allegences when the class has already been orphaned and left to consume itself.

There are a lot of people wanting to run the Canadian D or Merc 44s setup under the peripheral dress of a Merc 55H and they do go like blazes as well. There are others also looking for cheaper stock block racing so why not open it up to multi-manufacturers, real stock blocks and stock cowls too and see how inventive can be with real stock blocked engines as opposed to the engines that are virtually blue print specials today. Allowing blue printing and special brands of engines is the classes bain and loss. If your not embracing opening it up to stock block technologies both past and present and keeping to specializtion, the class is gonna disappear like the Merc 55Hs stopped by the low 1980s into the hands of collectors in the 1990s to be raced little to no more.

I think we have to get with the times and available stock block technologies.

[crankbearing]

Bass / Merc

As I understand it the motor is 3 HP and 3 Lbs of torque more than the 44XS. I stated as I think several people did when this all started that the merc was rated at the prop shaft and the Tohatsu was rated at the Powerhead - common sense should have told someone that the motor would have more than the 44 out of the gate. I apprecate everyone;s words of support and that is what i was banking on. I believe that all this has done is create confusion in the class and has not resolved anything.

I have delivered 5 motors this year with three more on the slate right now for this winter we have three new drivers in Canada next year with Merc 44XS. These guys are going to feel great having spent the money to race with a non-competitive motor. People are you really trying to save a sport or do you just hate the Merc's that much. With all the 25 bashing and now the 44 by reading between the line being laid to rest. I am trying to justify to myself as to why I spend $200 a year to me a member of an organization that wants to give me the shaft and sends my blood pressure through the roof every time I read a change that is suppose to make us stronger but costs us 40 racers in the process so we have to start all over.

Now if we talk procedures here - I would have to object to the way this whole thing was handled - I did not see 50 bass motors produced as ready for sale in this deal hello!!!! I did not see even one for that matter. I see a customers motor going to the SORC for testing not a manufacturers motor. Why were the rules not upheld in this situation. The bottom line is the stipulations from SORC to BASS were not met so why was the motor approved. vote or not if rules were not followed then it should have been dead in the water as we all are now at least I know that is the general feeling.

Who is on the committee to slow this motor down I think that a DSH newsletter to every DSH member and/or all concerned parties should be involved from the word go. This should not be left up to powers to be we now see where that leads

Did you guys think of the money the APBA has into this 44 project as well as other parties involved it is not just me who is left holding the bag. Oh well!! hopefully they can sell 87 Bass motors to recoup that money in new membership next year.

brutal is all I can say...

[Steve Johnson]

Sorc

One Probationary Motor (alone) On the west coast does not Amount to all the field testing needed to approve this motor.As Dave Mentioned Some rules have been cer***vented to allow Fully THIS motor in. NOT.Why is placed Upon the Membership to First Purchase AND then do the grunt work of Testing this Motor? That was awfull Nice of Mr. Youngen To let his Motor be the guinie Pig on the dyno. Now he should be expected to Wring through A dozen or so props and Then Maybe need to do it again after the sorc decides to bury this motor to slow it down? This just isn't right to place this responsibility and cost on the membership. I have no problem at all with them as a probationary entrie to shake things out.But I think the FACTORY should provide. don't the rules say this? Three Plus HP is Huge.( think boat lengths) or think of running your 20ss against the C's. remember that the Merc baseline was also set with one of the best 44xs out there. where does this leave the mid pack guys now? RYAN well Said:
John T: New tech is great but We only wish for a level Playing field. Current D owners should not be required to make Changes to keep up, Concidering that we have the engine supply handled for this class.If anything the BASS should have it's own home. Your proposal sounds like MOD
I hope Bass has a long list of buyers ready for these. Alienate your current members to the point they cannot keep up and your gonna need them.
SORC should rethink It's position.
Steve 15 year DSH DSR veteran

[Big Don]

I’ll try to be as accurate as I can with out my minutes in front of me…

The SORC voted on several motions regarding this issue. I believe it was the 5th motion that passed in a close vote. It was that the Tohatsu would be a legal engine for the 2006 racing season with a parity committee being set up to address any speed advantage the Tohatsu may have. They would be able to make changes during the racing season to accomplish this.

[ANZANI-QUINCY FREAK]

As It Is The D Stock Class Would Remain A Specialty

I am not one to put down Dave Scott's efforts to keep and produce and engine running that is successful but that is no longer Mercury supported, they left the building. I am not saying don't produce the engine for competiton please do but as you know its really a blue printed stock racing engine built as a specialty from the Merc factory and now that effort is in private hands unsupported by Merc. Your own your own investment and time, money and product. Is your engine a modified, no but it seems to be a top of the line blue printed special and really stock outboard only if stock outboard accepts blue printing and it does. If this Merc 44 was a loop charged engine I would blame you for doing the same thing but then technology has moved forward a bit and I am sure racers with older 44Xs across the continent would keep their rigs racing just the same.

For Steve J to make it sound that other people wanting to run stock blocked and stock cowled other name brands with adaptive towers and gearcases is hardly gone Modified. Bar blueprinting in D to level the playing field and get these other named brands in. It would inexpensively widening the D-Stock playing field to stock blocks that could be and most likely would Loopers you could purchase new today with factory parts support right off the shelf. When I hear someone thinkig this is Mod it sounds like the well defined and refined in running Merc/Mariner 44Xs would be in trouble as if all the other name brand engines out there are like the Tohatsu/Bass. To many it would be the Merc 400, 450 500s of early block type and then the later Merc 500s and the many Merc anniversary specials that would come out of the woodwork adaptive tower and gearcase and all and people would see that as a Mod, I doubt it! To them it could mean bargain stock outbaord racing. Sure there could be Suzukis and Yamahas too but what threat is a stock block and stock cowled version of that? Not a Merc maybe but still a D-Stock block powerhead with wider availability and supported where the Merc 44 has become an expensive specialty and a performance blue print specialty too boot so, so what was stock about that or its predecessor the Merc 55H before that treated just the same.

Time to get on the progress and add engines like the Tohatsu/Bass and maybe a Suzuki/Bass, Yamaha/Bass, Merc 450/Bass etc. etc. a realistic D-Stocks at the block and cowl.

[14-H]

D Stock Skinny

Here, in a nutshell, is what has occurred: At the last annual meeting, the Bass/Tohatsu engine was approved as a legal engine beginning in 2006 subject to dyno testing being performed during the year for purposes of analyzing its power to that of the Merc. Mike Wienandt performed this testing and it essentially reveals that the Bass/Tohatsu engine has approximately 3 hp more than the Merc through the power band especially at lower RPMs but that this appears to even out at the 6500 RPM range.

After several motions were considered by the SORC at a meeting held on Thursday (including a motion to remove the Tohatsu entirely and another to place it again on probationary status-both failed), the SORC left the Tohatsu Engine in the D Class as a legal engine and changed the technical rule procedure for this class such that a parity committee shall be appointed by the SO Chair and this committee will have the power to change the class technical rules during the racing season at any time in order to maintain parity between the engines. This is a similar arrangement that is used by the J Category.

I have now appointed Steve Wilde (R11), Neil Bass (R10), Mark Wheeler (R6) and Mike Wienandt (R7) to this committee. I have called for the committee to meet very soon to address changes that appear to need to be made right away to ensure parity between the engines. So long as I am SO Chairman (which, for now, is another 15 hours), I will be committed to ensuring that BOTH engines are competitive in this class. This procedure allows a mechanism for that to take place.

Stay tuned...

[jeff55v]

You've got it right.

I’ll try to be as accurate as I can with out my minutes in front of me…

The SORC voted on several motions regarding this issue. I believe it was the 5th motion that passed in a close vote. It was that the Tohatsu would be a legal engine for the 2006 racing season with a parity committee being set up to address any speed advantage the Tohatsu may have. They would be able to make changes during the racing season to accomplish this.

This is the way I understand it too.
I've been waiting for someone more important than me to post all this info.
I want to thank all the hard working folks on the SORC. This was a tough decision.
I also want to thank Mike Weinandt for taking the time in his busy shop to do the technical work for the SORC.
Last but not least, I want to thank Neil and Sid Bass for all their hard work on this project.
I know it's gonna be tough to acheive parity with two completely different motors in the same class. I'm hopeful it can be done while keeping both parties satisfied.
Below I have posted the dyno test info. I'm not very good with the format of the test data. So I hope it turns out ok. There's a little more info than this, but this is the best I can provide with the limited time I have here.

[hurricane]

FREAK,
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Don't you think that this particular topic should be left to the SORC, those that are building*the motors, those that race in*the D stock*class,*and maybe*those that*are interested in buying one of the motors. You are none of the above.*Start a new thread for your agenda.
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no longer Mercury supported, they left the building.

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The other manufacturers that you mention below were never in the building in the first place. What have they done for stock outboard racing?
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Bar blueprinting in D to level the playing field

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That's utter non-sense. Allowing blueprinting to specs*creates parity.
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Tohatsu/Bass and maybe a Suzuki/Bass, Yamaha/Bass, Merc 450/Bass

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You don't believe that the Scott built*Mercury should be allowed?
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No more in this thread. If you care to further debate what you think a D stock should be start a new thread.

[ANZANI-QUINCY FREAK]

There are others too and who is to say I wouldn't?

I was born out of stock outboard racing my friend Hurricane. Being dismissive does not serve anyone's purpose.

The discussion about stock outboard racing produced more than one person looking at producing their own stock blocked and cowled racing engine. Some of other manufacturers and I happen to have a NOS Merc 450 - 44 inch all Merc, cowls and all and an NOS Mercury 500 Anniversary special, both Merc 44s and no blueprinting sitting in the garage suitable to mount on a universal water level exhaust and Bass gearcase even to join that movement. Who is to say it can't play your games and there are a few already dressed as "Canadian Ds" (Merc 400-450s-500s with center of block located spark plugs) that all ready do play that/your game. Do I register some fright here from those more priveleged to own a 44X or planning to buy a new Tohatsu/Bass D?????

Better ask yourself whose game you playing it for. The manufacturers and special production interests to keep narrow fields of basically blue printed deflectors and unblueprinted by loop charged Tohatsus for the few when opening it up to the masses with progressive thinking and adaptive rules would liven up the scene. Just what you guys afraid of?? Some old pure stock boys giving you a run for your money with a stock blocked and stock cowled different branded engine(s)?

Go start a new thread??? How about some coherent listening and actions?