A Plan for the Future

[G Stillwill]

There is alot of design changes being made to the new hotrod easier to work on, will start in the water and be much stronger, wont go into details thats up to the company to release that. As far as converting the 15 to 20 cu in its not just converting the motor it means all new props a new bigger boat plus the cost of converting two motors over to 20 cu in. I for one wont dump another 5000 to 6000 to stay in the class. One of the reasons and the biggest reason for the decline of the class is the hotrod company for the last 15 years was in name only and no motors and very few parts so guys just got away from them. Now with motors and parts the class should grow , I know of at least 4 guys waiting to buy new motors for BSH when they start delivering them. Another thing is the speed increase from a 58 mph ASH to a 72 mph 20 cu in BSH which some wont want to do as the right now BSH is in the 63 to 65 mph range and a good steeping stone to CSH. To me the viable thing is just this the 20 cu in hotrod with the 25xs and let the 15 cu in B class grow back with new motors and parts..

[csh2z]

You're right Steve the older Hot Rods were a real pain. The problem, it was fifties technology plain & simple. The team putting together this new product are well aware of the reputation and know it won't be easy to gain the confidence of their detractors. That said, they also know how to address the problems of the past. Every part of this motor has been scrutinized thoroughly by an impressive group of engineers,designers & top notch mechanics who volunteered their knowledge & opinions in an effort to make this project successful. Most of these people are lifetime boat racers that we all know, others have been quietly behind the scene for many years. When all is said & done,the new Hot Rod will be the best racing motor available. There should be no doubt. John

[csh2z]

Xracer

Here we are, on Hydroracer discussing the issues. By the way, that thing about the propeller issue was a joke. Sad but true. Seeing as how we're here, What are your thoughts on the plan? How many of you think it's the right way to go? Let's talk about. I've heard a lot of complaints over the years about all kinds of issues & how the commission does nothing & the sport is dying & lets keep politics out of racing etc. Here is our chance to make our voices heard. BRING IT ON!

[Cameraboy]

A Plan

I'm very glad to see a plan articulated, and in a forum where folks can see it and discuss it prior to the National meetings. Obviously the Plan needs to get on the SORC agenda, or we're all just flapping our gums. Is someone volunteering to make that happen?

If SORC is having trouble communicating to its members, then perhaps a discussion of that problem and a solution with an implementation plan needs to happen at the National meeting as well. Maybe the marketing money needs to first be spent on the message to ourselves before we take the message to the masses.

[csh2z]

Mike, You can make it happen. Speak to your commissioner or become one. If you or anybody has an issue that you would like on the agenda, write it, explain it & make your case. Send it to any commissioner or the category chairman by early January and it will be on the agenda. The greater effort you make to substanciate your case, the better chance you will have to get your issue to go your way.
You're also right about the communication issue. Do you have a proposal?John 2-Z

[Sean Augustine]

Who's on board?

Dana - I like your class structure. It seems thought out and feasible.

Questions:

1.Is HR focusing on the 20ci or the 15ci right now?

1a.If HR puts money into the 15ci project, is it wasted in light of this structure?

2.Might this bring a positive spike in BSR or does the Y80 not work well on runabouts?

3. and most importantly - which commisioners are reading this and weighing in on the pros/cons and possibilities?

Editorial: change is scary, but at this point, taking the ostrich approach to our sport is even scarier. I've seen a marked decline in numbers at local races and I've only been racing since 1990.

Sean

[csh2z]

Hi Sean

I am. Are you ignoring me?

[Xracer]

... By the way, that thing about the propeller issue was a joke. Sad but true. Seeing as how we're here, What are your thoughts on the plan? How many of you think it's the right way to go? Let's talk about. I've heard a lot of complaints over the years about all kinds of issues & how the commission does nothing & the sport is dying & lets keep politics out of racing etc. Here is our chance to make our voices heard. BRING IT ON!

John, your comments are right on target. I truly don't appreciate the politics of this issue. I just know that we need synergy to get a plan together that the stock membership will embrace as being in the best long term interests of the sport. Do I have the answer? Nope. But a reasonable solution is within our grasp if we put our collective minds to the issue and leave the nimby politics out of the equation.

My prediction is that this thread will generate more responses between now and the annual meeting than any thread on this site to date!

With that kind of energy we will find the solution.

The basic framework is/should be pretty much as Dana proposed:

JSH/JSR
ASH/ASR
BSH/BSR
CSH/CSR
DSH/DSR

Motors:

JSH/JSR: Merc 15
ASH/ASR: OMC (Phase in HotRod)
BSH/BSR: HotRod
CSH/CSR: Yamato
DSH/DSR: Merc, Bass,?

no 20, no 25 classes... sorry!

[Sean Augustine]

Hi John

Yes, I am ignoring you (are you coming to the region meeting in two weeks?) - no, really what I meant to say was, is there any discussion among our commisioners, besides this thread, presently directed to revamping the system?

XRacer - gotta take serious issue with your idea of removing 20ss - it is one of the most well represented classes in the country, not just regionally.

Sean

[sam]

Sean I though he was agreeing with Dana to rename 20ss "B", but I do see he omitted Y-80's from his B motor list. I agree that there seem to be enough Y-80's running to keep them as a B motor. Confusion comes in with fill in rigs running restricted C's in 20ss.

The true speeds of the C and sub-C classes are still confusing to me. Everyone claims that the various motors can not be used together, but everyone brags that they are running the same speed when they brag.

There are hard facts to back up speed claims ... lap times. If analysis of lap times shows one motor is faster than another it can be settled without farther investigation.

[Big Don]

Your assumed tongue in cheek comment aside I do have some good ideas. Great ideas in fact but the reality is that I'm "un-electable" because I'm an Xracer! So, my options are to try and convince the existing leadership to show more leadership, reach out to the racing membership and do what needs to be done in order to allow for the sport we all love to show positive growth and development.

Was my comment “tongue in cheek” only slightly.

Why do you think you are un-electable. Join APBA for 50.00 or whatever it is. Go to your region meeting, tell them some of your ideas and you want to run so you can help this sport. You are the type of person that we need, if your intentions are true. You have no interest other than making it better. You don’t have any hidden agendas, to protect your class, your buddies class, keep a rule change from happening… hopefully you get where I’m coming from. And I’m not saying the current members do. I’m just trying to making a point. If a retired from racing person showed up at our region meeting and pitched his ideas and wanted to help I would step back and let them go for it. The reason 99% of the people volunteering to do this is because we do care. We are all friends and we need each and every one of us, there are not many of us left. So we tend to error on the safe side because we don’t want to do anything that is going to drive anyone away. Do I think we need to make some changes, yes I do. Are there classes out there that don’t need to be a National class, yes there are.

Everything needs to be well thought out. As an example, make the wrong decision for 25H & BSR two of the classes that nationally are pretty weak. In Region 7 we race them both. Make the wrong decision and you could wipe a region out. The facts are the classes are hurting on a national level and something needs to be done but we need to be careful.

Lastly, sign your name because I have a hard time taking anything you say to seriously when you don't. For all I know your my wife at work just trying to stir the pot.

[14-H]

The plan

It is very difficult to develop a plan under the post APBA 2000 reforms. All of the commissioners are elected at the Region meetings and they are usually elected upon a variety of factors that have nothing to do with a future vision for the category. Sometimes they are elected just because they can attend the annual meeting or because no one else wants the job. Some Regions have commissioners that never come to the annual meeting.

Under the old system, the VP ran on a platform that could be weighed by the members and then chosen. John is right that 2 years was too short a time to do anything. But the idea that the VP is elected on a platform and then chooses commissioners to help him carry it out once elected seems to be much more organized.

Right now, commissioners come from all over the country with a hodge-podge of ideas about what they want to accomplish and it is very difficult to form any plan. Moreover, this system is very prone to "protectionism" whereby commissioners are much more influenced by the members in their region and much more likely to be hostile to any change than they were before the new system was adopted.

What I have tried to do as the chairman who is chosen by the commission is to set time aside at the annual meeting to break into groups of commissioners and develop lists of "projects" that need to be addressed and then come back together as a commission to address these issues. This seems to have been relatively effective in setting road map for things that need to be addressed. I've also always started out my annual meetings with an overview of class structure and participation with a look at numbers and trends in order to "set the mood" for a forest-for-the-trees type meeting.

Of course the problem always is that the Racing Commission is made up of racers who first want to race, second will assist in running races and third address jobs that have been assigned to them at the annual meeting. I'm certainly not casting blame upon anyone for this problem. It's just the way a volunteer organization works especially when the volunteers are addicted to something other than what they're being asked to do.

[ryan_4z]

Sean I though he was agreeing with Dana to rename 20ss "B", but I do see he omitted Y-80's from his B motor list. I agree that there seem to be enough Y-80's running to keep them as a B motor. Confusion comes in with fill in rigs running restricted C's in 20ss.

The true speeds of the C and sub-C classes are still confusing to me. Everyone claims that the various motors can not be used together, but everyone brags that they are running the same speed when they brag.

There are hard facts to back up speed claims ... lap times. If analysis of lap times shows one motor is faster than another it can be settled without farther investigation.

The issue of restricted C's being run in 20ssH has been brought up now a few times. I think it is important to bring to light, I am the only person I know of that is running this regularly on the east coast. There are very few restricted C's running at all nationwide. I could be wrong, but I just don't know of any besides myself running regularly. The 20ssH class is still popular only because of the Yamato 80.

As far as the speeds go, I dont care what anyone says, a 20ssH is about 3 to 4 mph slower than a C.

[Tim Weber]

If classes are cut at some time then we are back to the old J through D structure that we had for years. That leaves us with 10 classes total, without elims, a total of 20 heats of racing per day. Since we regularly turn 40-50 heats per day as it is now, why not do what the pros do and run 3 heats per day, per class when and if the classes are cut and restructered?

That way we all have a little more fun and the number of heats are still down,

Just a thought for down the road.

Tim

[Sean Augustine]

What I'm hearing

So far there doesn't seem to be a lot of heels being dug in against the plan of reducing classes.

If Dana has the model for moving forward on the class structure, then we need to hear from Hot Rod real dates, on a race ready motor, that anyone can buy and what it will cost them.

Lastly, John and Ed, you seem to be following this closely. I would ask that you start contacting commisioners now to start discussions on this rather than waiting until January.

Sean