A Plan for the Future

[dholt]

Kudos to the 4-Z and 4-D for getting down to the nuts and bolts of this round and round argument over the 25XS.

It's all moot if there is no PLAN. And that's the way we've been operating for the past several years on this issue. Every year tweaking this and that...but what is the ultimate goal?

Now, Hot Rod appears to be ready to build engines in the speed range that is desperately needed.

How about devising a plan...then placing the engines into that plan...rather than building engines, restricting engines, raising heights, lowering heights, adding weight, yadda, yadda, yadda and THEN forming a plan?!

Shouldn't the SORC and/or members come up with some answers first? What do we (Stock Outboard) want to be in 5-10 years? What class structure do we desire? Do we want multiple motors in one class or single engine classes?

None of these questions have been answered. We're throwing new engines and restrictions to current engines/classes around with zero idea where they will take us.

Nearly everyone can agree that MORE classes is the WRONG way to go. Ok, so how do we:

1. Maintain the current number of classes?
- or-
2. Reduce the current number of classes?

Next question:

1. What motors race in each class?


Once we answer these basic question, then it will be a whole lot easier to devise a system for integrating the engines we want.


To me, the grand plan is pretty simple and right before our eyes.

Classes:
ASH
BSH
CSH
25SSH
DSH
ASR
BSR
CSR
DSR

Now, how do we get there?

ASH/ASR- current OMC, and phase in the "NEW" 'A' Hot Rod when it becomes available
BSH- Sorry, 15ci guys...it's going nowhere. 30-35 boats for the past 8-10 years. 13 at this years Nationals. Convert your engine to a 20ci. Rename 20ssH as BSH. All current 20ssH engines would be legal.
CSH- All current CSH engines and keep an eye toward future
25SSH- The new 20ci Hot Rod and current Merc 25xs. The Merc will slowly die away to nothing leaving hopefully a ton of 20ci Hot Rod drivers. If in 10 years there aren't 40 legitimate 25ssH (Hot Rods and Mercs) the class is ELIMINATED and the remaining 20ci Hot Rods are detuned and phased into the BSH class with the Yamatos. It's not a bad fit for the Hot Rod if this happened.
DSH- current engines. It's shown growth. 41 boats this year, up from 33 last year. Dave Scott has helped...and Bass.

ASR- see above
BSR- Again, 15ci owners, 25-35 boats for the past 10 years. Bite the bullet...convert to 20ci Hot Rod. It's a better ride than the 15 too. Keep the Merc 25xs. They're **** close right now in speed. Slight tweaking and they're equal.
CSR- leave it alone
DSR- same as above.


There it is. A, B, C and D hydro and runabout. Full fields or more at every weekend race (except for DSR) hopefully. You could have current production engines in ASH/ASR, BSR, 25ssH and DSH/DSR.

That should be attractive to NEW racers. As for current drivers...you've all got a place to race. If 15ci Hot Rod owners didn't want to convert, the motor still runs in Mod...so it could be used there.

OK...let's hear it. Why wouldn't this plan work?

D.

[jsilvestri]

Thank you Dana, for shedding some common sense on the issues at hand.

[ryan_4z]

Dana,

You hit the nail on right on the head. As soon as we have a plan, these hot button issues can be very quickly resolved. I think that you have laid out the right class structure we should be aiming for. The only thing I would do is not have 25ssH, and keep 20ssH seperate. In your class structure you have the 20 Hot Rod in 2 classes. I would have BSH be the 20 Hot Rod, and the 25xs, and keep 20ssH the same. Other than that, I think it would be a very wise move for the SORC to look at Dana's class structure, and strongly consider adopting it as our plan for the future.

[Big Don]

Dana's got it right again.

What I almost put in my last thread was… “What is our goal/future with this class and all our classes? That is a different thread not intended for this one but if our goal is to have the HotRod be the engine of choice we should let everyone know that.”

But, Dana beat me to it. This is what we should be spending the majority of our time on in January and on this board discussing. Or we could talk boat numbers for 16 hours in January and have 3000 hits again on that thread…

Dana, get back on the commission!!!! You hit it right on the head!!!!

[Xracer]

It's all moot if there is no PLAN. And that's the way we've been operating for the past several years on this issue. Every year tweaking this and that...but what is the ultimate goal?D.

BINGO!!!

Isn't that exactly what the SORC should have been doing this entire past year? Why haven't they done the planning so that something intelligent could be submitted to the membership at the annual meeting. Too much timidity in the SORC. Afraid to make the tough decisions. I don't understand why we keep seeing the same issues year after year. Too many classes, not enough racers, race schedules that are too long, blah, blah, blah. on and on ad nauseum! The right plan IS NOT going to be acceptable to everyone. But the SORC needs to step up to the challenge, show some leadership and set a solid course and foundation for the future. Unfortunately they won't. Haven't yet and never will. Done whining.

[Big Don]

BINGO!!!

Isn't that exactly what the SORC should have been doing this entire past year? Why haven't they done the planning so that something intelligent could be submitted to the membership at the annual meeting. Too much timidity in the SORC. Afraid to make the tough decisions. I don't understand why we keep seeing the same issues year after year. Too many classes, not enough racers, race schedules that are too long, blah, blah, blah. on and on ad nauseum! The right plan IS NOT going to be acceptable to everyone. But the SORC needs to step up to the challenge, show some leadership and set a solid course and foundation for the future. Unfortunately they won't. Haven't yet and never will. Done whining.

Run for a commission spot at your region meeting this fall, sounds like you might have some good ideas. The bonus is you also get to use 4 vacation days to go to sunny Florida in January.

[csh2z]

Dana, That is the plan. Our problem has been communicating that to the membership. Unfortunetly most people don't want to deal with the fact that some of the motors we are currently racing should be obseleted. We're afraid we will lose too many racers. We have been cutting our own throats for years now & we all know it. The end is near for some classes, the writing is on the wall. We have to open our eyes and read it. If not, the future of this sport is in jeopardy. As some of us have stated many times in the last few years we NEED minimum class standards like we used to have. When a class shrinks to a certain level, there is a reason. If we have no control over the cause of the problem, then we can't fix it. The goal is to have fewer classes each with one motor in it (so we can remain stock), and everybody is on a level playing field. The level playing field is the essence of Stock Outboard. That is what separates us from Mod or Pro.
One of the other problems we have is the way we choose our leadership. In the old system a candidate would run for the category V.P. and choose his own commission to whom he would delegate the responsibility of achieving HIS agenda. Usually there were 2 or 3 candidates that would run on a specific issue based platform. The membership would then vote based on the issues. Because they were only two year terms, it seemed every two years we would have another five year plan. That won't work!
Currently we elect our commissioners from our regions, and they will choose a chairman. The chairmans term is still two years but now every year we could have a whole new group of commissioners. Each commissioner is going to have a different opinion on different issues based on what is going on in his own region. What we end up with is stagnation, because we are representing our own self-interest instead of doing what is in the best interes of the sport. There is no platform that the membership voted for so the commission has no mandate to head in a particular direction. In spite of this, we have made some progress. There has been quite a few commissioners that have been there for three or four years and have been able to keep the focus somewhat on the future, but remember that can change by next month. It is possible for the next commission to scrap everything we have done over the last few years and head in a completely direction. That is why it is very important to communicate to the membership what the plan is and for the membership to respond. Just remember our responsibility is to the future well being of S.O. thanks, John Runne 2-Z Hit me!

[AJennings]

you forgot a class

the 25ssr is growing big and what are you going to do with it dana. Are you just going to forget about it. And RYAN has the idea on leaving the 20ssh alone. ooo and how much is the new hot rods going to cost??? And when are the going too be available to racers???

AJennings

[Xracer]

Dana, That is the plan. Our problem has been communicating that to the membership.

John, Thanks for a great response but just how has the SORC been attempting to communicate "the plan" to the membership? Just browsed through the APBA website and looked at past issues of the "Propeller" the official publication of the APBA and couldn't find any reference to the plan for Stock Outboard racing. Who has this plan do***ent?

[Xracer]

Run for a commission spot at your region meeting this fall, sounds like you might have some good ideas. The bonus is you also get to use 4 vacation days to go to sunny Florida in January.

Your assumed tongue in cheek comment aside I do have some good ideas. Great ideas in fact but the reality is that I'm "un-electable" because I'm an Xracer! So, my options are to try and convince the existing leadership to show more leadership, reach out to the racing membership and do what needs to be done in order to allow for the sport we all love to show positive growth and development.

[Brian10s]

Plan yes . . .

I was not going to get involved in this. I stayed out the the 25 discussion as I did not have a horse in that race and my opinion was not strong either way. However, Dana's plan has hit on something and I think it needs discussed. Yes, it is a good plan but it adresses only 1/2 of the issue. Stock is only 1/2 of the Hot Rod plan (unless they only plan on suppling 140(CSH numbers, biggest class) and then going into the parts department). I would think they have an eye on the Mod market as well. While I hope for the HR sucess and will keep my fingures crossed, there are so many things that could derail this, that to hang racings future on the rebirth of HR is more than just shortsighted it is scary. And I do not mean that to be a knock on HR, it is just a fact that a single source of engine for all of racing (even small engine racing) is a pipedream. 10 years ago, everyone thought OMC would be around forever, suppling parts at the very least. Stuff happens. We need to do everything to help HR get to our mutual goals but also make sure that we protect ourselves just in case.

While having a plan for the future is great, we also need ot have a plan for the present and make sure we has a smooth transition from the present to the future. In this regard, I think the SORC and the MORC need to work hand in hand. Case in point, the 25XS motor. Instead of slowing it down to run with the new HR, why can't all the 25 guys find a home in Mod (in either 25MH, BMH or BMR). At the very minium, it will give those that want the new engine a place to sell their current equipment instead of eating their investiment. At the best, it give the 25 guys a place to run with no/ little additional investiment, boost the numbers of whatever class they go into and provides an open class in stock for the new 20HR to slide into. Not to mention that if both categories open up classes for the 20HR at the same time, we will have 2 classes of 20 nationally as to expect HR to produce mass quanity right off the bat is crazy. Let the Stock class grow for 2-3 years and then just as demand in Stock starts to slow, Mod can come on line (if they wanted) This way HR would have a steady demand stream for 6+ years on one motor line. The same thing can be said for the 15HR moving over to A mod and on down the line. It should be up to the SORC & MORC to work together, so that we don't bring in a new motor or class without finding a home for the old, wither it is restricted or in the other class/category. I am not saying that the Mod category becomes the Stock dumping ground. I am saying working in concert for the benifit of all of kneeldown racing. And it would need to go beyond the Commissions to work, the drivers need to embrace this as well. It is really their money and love on the line, as well as Commissions(since most are fellow racers).

Why in today's world where it is hard to get and keep racers, would we every not find a place to put something. Did we not learn from the KG4/ OMC deal. If every KG4 had moved right into Mod, we might have maintained many drivers who felt abandoned.

Can we make everyone happy? No way. There will still be people who would hate to have their class moved from one category to the other. However, I would think most just want to race their boats, regardless of under what banner.

And for those that think this is just a stock issue have not scene the larger picture. Mod and Stock share everything from boats, engines, rules and driver pool. It is about time they share an outlook to the future as well.

[csh2z]

Within our current structure, there is no format to communicate a "plan" other than propeller magazine. Maybe you missed that issue. John

[Xracer]

Within our current structure, there is no format to communicate a "plan" other than propeller magazine. Maybe you missed that issue. John

Must have missed it, which issue ... still have all of this years and most for the last twenty!

While APBA does not chose to use HydroRacer.Net in any "official" manner as a communication tool the reality is that 85% of all current,active APBA stock outboard category racing members and the overwhelming majority (if not all) of the current SORC members pay attention to what is posted here on HydroRacer.Net. It has served well as a significant sounding board and forum for broad discussion on many issues. Why not have the SORC use this site to float a "plan" for Stock Outboard growth and development.

[csh2z]

Brian, You made some very good points. I'd like to point out however that what you're looking for already exists. All stock motors are already legal in Mod. When a class is eliminated in stock, all drivers have the option to run in Mod or buy into the reformed class or both. In this case Mod & Stock can both benefit. Mod gets its growth, and stock opens the door for new racers. Good input, lets keep it going! John

[Steve Johnson]

X hot rod racer

It was a happy day when my last hotrod sold. Don't place all your sorc hopes on this engine. I hope they got the bugs out of them and I am sure they are trying. I remember that motor as being one SOB to keep running. here will be a serious Image Perception To market these. They are not right for everyone.Hopefully they are a better product. More user freindly. they can build em, but they need people to buy them Too.
I speak from experience, I helped Tom build very many of the best out there.
Steve