20SSH Sidewinder Removal Proposal: Vote NO

[pav225]

Funny...I was just in Chile and talking to people who don't speak English. I spoke louder and it still didn't make sense to them...

[pav225]

Patrick...just having some fun, because at the end of the day we will be friends.

[sponsonhead]

Here's the part where we all sing Kum Ba Yah!

Patrick...just having some fun, because at the end of the day we will be friends.

This is true.

The way I see how this plays out, people will vote their decision based on one of two things:

A) What-if scenarios and assumptions based on conjecture; or

B) The facts as they are today (see the very first post on this thread).

Beyond that, there's very little else that you or I can say here that will make a difference.

R-19

[ryan_4z]

Matt, I completely agree with you. Our lack of a cohesive direction is our main (maybe our only) problem right now. This petition only serves to perpetuate the kind of poorly thought out, hasty rule-making that has gotten us to this position. And that is why it is so dangerous. If this petition passes the precedent it sets could serve to dismantle any direction the SORC could or would take in the future.

[mercguy]

here's a thought....

for all you "heavyweights" that want to run the 20SSH class with a Sidewinder (so you are closer to weight), buy a Tohatsu and run the DSH (hopefully the 750 class also) class......thats what I did and will never look back......I knew I no longer belonged in the 20 class, since I like to eat cheeseburgers regularly......

[seanp3]

I don't know much about the APBA, SORC, or the Parity committee structure, but I know this does not need to be mutually exclusive. This might be a dumb question. Why not give the SW 20 it's own hydro class on a probationary basis for about 2 years? In my opinion, it needs this to survive as the biggest potential buying pool is the 20 and "C" racers. And, still let it run in 20SSH class during the 2 year probationary period. At the end of 2 years drop it from 20SSH class. This could be a win-win!

I like Lee's idea. If the SORC had put this in print as their intention there wouldn't have been all this excitement during the off season.

[blueskyracer]

for all you "heavyweights" that want to run the 20SSH class with a Sidewinder (so you are closer to weight), buy a Tohatsu and run the DSH (hopefully the 750 class also) class......thats what I did and will never look back......I knew I no longer belonged in the 20 class, since I like to eat cheeseburgers regularly......

I like it.. Cheeseburgers are a down fall for many of us

[Matt Dagostino]

SORC and Racing Outboards LLC

I like Lee's idea. If the SORC had put this in print as their intention there wouldn't have been all this excitement during the off season.

Sean.........remember this issue was a combo of a few SORC members along with Racing Outboards LLC.

Let's spread the responsibility out as evenly as possible. At that National Meeting of the SORC there was NO discussion by the proponents of this proposal to limit the time the engine would be in the class!! Since the motor was legalized after the 2010 meeting all kinds of 'what if's' have been thrown around but no proposals to the SORC were made as to the direction of the engine other than making it another engine in the class. With the approval of the Sidewinder 20ci 20ssh height being raised to one inch last year i think that is evidence that certain SORC members truly want the engine to move into a position to win, not just act as a platform to give the owners a place to 'run around' and showcase the engine.

[dholt]

How in blazes does the inclusion of the SW in 20ssH necessary for BSH or BSR to grow nationally?

302ssH was born just 2 years ago from NOTHING...zero...zip..nada. There were 19 drivers earning points in 2013. With a motor that had to come across the world then go to a "dealer" to get sealed before you even took posession of it.

Why in the world couldn't the same thing happen with the 'B' classes with a domestic engine that you can have directly in your hands...ready to race...within just days or weeks?

C'mon...let's be real here. As Matt stated, no one is going to be satisfied with running a $4500 engine in a class and not having a shot to win. As he stated, the height was changed from 1 3/8" to 1" a few years ago. We all know 1/2" is not too far down the road...and then what?

The SORC was way too eager to just start throwing engine combinations together. There was no clear plan or goal in mind.

An even BETTER plan would have been to make the 20 SW the "spec" class instead of using the 302. Now you'd have a domestic, off the shelf motor in high demand, help Racing Outboards SELL engines, NOT have to get it freshened up and sealed not be dependent on a foreign manufacturer who doesn't have Stock's interest at heart.

Plus, you could run BSH or BSR with it by just taking the restrictor out.

As it is now, the 302 spec engine is useless to run in another class unless you have a blueprinted gearfoot to throw on. Let alone the powerhead is slow because it's not blueprinted.

[ryan_4z]

D@mn Dana, you right. Always the voice of reason. I recant my previous statement about using the 20ssH class as a launch pad. But I still think this is a lousy way to go about things. You know I'm a proponent of structure, and that is why I stand against this petition. Come what may with the classes, I'll see ya'll at the races.

And, let's talk more about that SW spec class some time. No reason the whole category couldn't be spec classes. Then we'd be stock again.

[Sonny]

Duh!

I guess I am confused...How about..if less than 3 Sidewinders show up to a race than they run with the 20's... If more than 3 show up on race day... you do a Sidewinder specific 400cc stock class? Everyone is happy... and it is a level playing field with all the same motors...There!...Whats the next issue?

[ricochet112]

Sean.........remember this issue was a combo of a few SORC members along with Racing Outboards LLC.

Let's spread the responsibility out as evenly as possible. At that National Meeting of the SORC there was NO discussion by the proponents of this proposal to limit the time the engine would be in the class!! Since the motor was legalized after the 2010 meeting all kinds of 'what if's' have been thrown around but no proposals to the SORC were made as to the direction of the engine other than making it another engine in the class. With the approval of the Sidewinder 20ci 20ssh height being raised to one inch last year i think that is evidence that certain SORC members truly want the engine to move into a position to win, not just act as a platform to give the owners a place to 'run around' and showcase the engine.

Hey Matt,

Did you vote to keep the Y102 out of CSH in 1985 (1986?). I know you wanted to stop running your 30H

Inquiring minds would like to know. . .

[Matt Dagostino]

1990

Hey Matt,

Did you vote to keep the Y102 out of CSH in 1985 (1986?). I know you wanted to stop running your 30H

Inquiring minds would like to know. . .

Rick.........The year was 1990 and i had just won my 3rd straight National Championship in the summer of 1989 with my Merc 30h .

Craig Bowman was the SORC Chairman and approached me and said the SORC was going to 'ban' the Merc 30H at the end of the 1990 season. I supported the effort as there were like 3 dominant Merc's running and like 100 plus Yamatos on the scene in CSH. It was unfair to the majority of Yamato owners who invested in the 'future' to keep getting there azz kicked by me and Sam Hemp!!

I think what you are 'needling' me on here is apples and oranges. In the mid 1980's the Merc 30H and 55H were at the end of there useful life along with the KG-4. It was time for them all to go away just like it is time for the OMC 15 to slowly fade into the sunset and get behind the new Sidewinder 15ci.

The issue with the Sidewinder 20ci is different. The Yamatos are STRONG in CSH and 20ssh class and have a available motor (302 model). Why have 2 available completely different motors into one class????????

We all hate change but in some cases (like in the mid to late 1980's) it is necessary so we don't become the 'Antique Outboard' racing association.

Not sure if i answered your question??

Matt

[Jim Sweeney]

Membership

No disrespect to the fine people at Sidewinder but could someone/anyone please post a list of the new racers that have started in stock outboard using the sidewinder. And I'm not talking about people that have raced for years and switched to Sidewinder, I'm talking new people. And if anyone has a list of racers that have stopped racing Ash/Asr or quit altogether since the introduction of sidewinder was put into that class, I would appreciate it. Thanks, Jim

[deeougee]

Mr. Sutton's idea is the best one I've heard yet. From what I remember this is exactly how the 302 was brought into stock outboard. There was C2H and C2R. I remember Butch Ott winning the short course nationals in C2R back in 1997, the first or second year for the 302. The 302 was 2-3 mph slower than the 102 back then. As we all know the 302 was integrated and expanded into stock outboard class structure as the years went by. This brings us to Mr. Mason's point about the big picture. What is APBA's and Stock Outboard's 1,2,5 and 10 year business plan? Everything is interrelated, nothing is exclusive of one another. Things like new racer recruitment and participation, new technology integration, event planning and coordination, finding sponsors, etc. What is our identity now and where are we heading?