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20SSH Sidewinder Removal Proposal: Vote NO

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  • 20SSH Sidewinder Removal Proposal: Vote NO

    All:

    I recently sent the letter below to all the Region 10 20SSH drivers and a few other interested parties. Several people told me that this message needed a wider platform than a local email blast, so I am posting it here. Please keep in mind in reading it that it is written to a local audience with a local perspective; although the core of its message speaks to the issue at hand.

    Flame away.

    Dear Region 10 20SS Hydro Drivers (and other friends),

    By now, you should have received the Stock Outboard Rules ballot. One of the ballot items that you will be asked to be vote on is to remove the Sidewinder 20S engine from 20SSH.

    I wrote you previously about this issue. With the ballot now in your mailbox, it’s important to once again remind you of the importance of this pivotal issue, and how it could affect our sport.

    There’s a number of things that are unusual about this ballot item. The first, and the biggest one is that the item was not proposed by the SORC, the governing body that proposed all your other ballot items. In accordance with APBA By-laws, a small group of 20SS drivers petitioned the APBA to have this item go to a vote of the membership of the active drivers in the class. One of the co-writers has even gone on public record (posted on Hydroracer.net) as saying, “we are "protectionist". The petition has been driven out of one region in APBA, and has far reaching ramifications throughout ALL of APBA.

    Yes, as being the only owner of a Sidewinder 20S engine in Region 10 that is competing in 20SSH, I will admit without hesitation I have a dog in this fight. Most of you have seen us run our 20SSH and raced against us. Let’s look at the facts as they relate to our own program:

    We started at the first race of 2013 running at 55 mph and a cloud of dust in 20SSH. After learning a few subtle idiosyncrasies of the motor, replacing a power pack, and over the course of last season trying three different hulls and countless propellers, we ended up running 61-62 mph. We are still searching for the magic propeller, and with a heavy driver, are able to run in the upper mid pack in a region with more 20SSH's than anywhere else in the US. We still have a TON of work to do to become real "player" speed with this rig. We are not afraid of doing the work. We've done it before.

    Looking at the motor’s success nationally, we see a similar pattern: The motor has been legal for the past three seasons in 20SSH. Nobody running a Sidewinder in 20SSH has won a Nationals. Nobody has set a competition or straightaway record. Nobody has won a Divisionals. There hasn't even been a Nationals Final Qualifier in 20SSH powered by a Sidewinder. Truly, if a person's goal was to dominate in 20SSH, all the evidence appears that the way to NOT dominate is to buy a Sidewinder. What are they afraid of?

    In my opinion, the current letter grade of the Sidewinder 20S is incomplete. The proponents of this petition and ballot item will tell you how it's only a matter of time before it will DESTROY the class. It took TEN YEARS for a restricted 302 to win a Nationals in 20SSH. It took NINE YEARS for a Tohatsu to win a Nationals in DSH, despite complaints, boycotts, tantrums and endless whining. It is entirely possible that over time, the Sidewinder may surpass the performance of the Yamato in 20SSH. But anybody who says the end for the 302 is near is being woefully short sighted.

    The Sidewinder is a current production motor, made in America that can be delivered from the east coast to your doorstep in less than a month. Right now, Ric Montoya does not expect his latest shipment of Yamato 302s to ship until May, which means they likely will not be in the US until June of this year.

    Does it make sense to outlaw the only CURRENTLY AVAILABLE motor that you can purchase TODAY for the largest class in Stock Outboard? Of course it does not!

    Don’t get me wrong: We love our Yamato 302s, and we welcome the opportunity to race against other 302s in 20SS. We will probably get beat by a lot of you, many, many times before we have our Sidewinder sufficiently dialed in to consistently compete toe-to-toe with you. And at the end of the day, all we want is the chance to race against everybody else, using an American made motor that represents the future of APBA Stock Outboard racing.

    Your ballot, and your vote, is very important to us, and the future of all of Stock Outboard racing. Please don’t let a small group or racers from one part of the country deny the rest of us the opportunity to race 20SS Hydro, like everybody else.

    Please: Vote AGAINST removal of the Sidewinder 20S from the 20SS Hydro class.

    Fill out your ballot and mail it today.


    Thank you,

    Patrick Gleason
    R-19
    www.gleasonracing.com

    "No, THAT is why people hate him."

  • #2
    Hum

    Pat.........if you wanted a bigger forum to get your message out to why didn't you just use the APBA Social Site alone. Nuff said about that.

    While the subject matter will no doubt make for some good 'conversating' here on Hydroracer and will no doubt get thousands of views, i have one issue with the thread. As Chairman of the J Class Committee which many believe to be one of the most powerful positions within APBA, you were appointed by the APBA President and blessed by the entire APBA board of directors. I for one support your appointment and applaud it.

    BUTTTTTT, do you think it appropriate that you as a APBA leader should be out front of a movement to influence a APBA ballot item voted on by the members. Especially on a open forum like Hydroracer?

    That being said, i for one am voting to get the Sidewinder out of 20ssh class and leave it a Yamato only class as it has been since the 70's.

    Matt D'Agostino
    Voting APBA Member
    Last edited by Matt Dagostino; 03-11-2014, 12:24 PM.



    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for your comments, Matt.

      First off, I did attempt to first post this to the APBA Social site, however the technical limitations of the software used on that site would not allow me to do a simple "copy/paste" from my email. What I have done is posted it here, and linked to it on APBA Social.

      As for your questioning regarding whether it is "appropriate" for me to post my own personal opinion here, the last time I checked, APBA is still a member-driven organization. And as a Stock Outboard member, I have a vote (though not on this particular issue, because I did not drive a 20SSH last year).

      My position on this particular issue has nothing at all to do with my role as J Class Chairman, or as an APBA Council Member. Nor does it have anything to do with my role as a member of APBA's Safety Committee, or any of the other APBA Committees I currently sit on. I was not asked by APBA to rescind my voting rights as a member when I became a Committee Chair or Council Member at Large.

      It is the opinion of Patrick the Boat Racer, not Patrick the Chairman or Committee member or employee of Security Race Products. What could possibly be wrong with that?

      R-19
      www.gleasonracing.com

      "No, THAT is why people hate him."

      Comment


      • #4
        Please see my comments to Pat's post over on APBA.ORG social forum.

        Figured both sites can use the boost in numbers.
        "Ask anyone, I have no friends. I do have some people that put up with me and mostly because they like the rest of my family"

        Don Allen

        Comment


        • #5
          Pat I had ZERO issues posting over there.

          What I think is quite hilarious is this,
          As for your questioning regarding whether it is "appropriate" for me to post my own personal opinion here, the last time I checked, APBA is still a member-driven organization. And as a Stock Outboard member, I have a vote (though not on this particular issue, because I did not drive a 20SSH last year).

          But yet you have issues with the members using a rule that protects them as members. Kind of strange.
          "Ask anyone, I have no friends. I do have some people that put up with me and mostly because they like the rest of my family"

          Don Allen

          Comment


          • #6
            Exactly

            Originally posted by Big Don View Post
            Pat I had ZERO issues posting over there.

            What I think is quite hilarious is this, (snip of my quote)

            But yet you have issues with the members using a rule that protects them as members. Kind of strange.
            Ironic, isn't it?

            R-19
            www.gleasonracing.com

            "No, THAT is why people hate him."

            Comment


            • #7
              Correction

              Patrick, I think the quote was... "self-righteous, lazy, trailer box protecting, 302ssH supporting, easy chair sitting, contradicting, Team loving, fuel cheating, lawyer friending, self centered, biased, short sighted, hidden agenda having, Yamato loving friend". :-)

              Comment


              • #8
                Point taken

                I like you Mike, so I intentionally picked a quote that wasn't so damaging (or true :P )

                R-19
                www.gleasonracing.com

                "No, THAT is why people hate him."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Team back up

                  Call my relationship with Pat Gleason what you want. Team owner, Step-father, ex step-father, teammate, friend, whatever. I feel his position on the 20ss SW issue is valid, even if our relationship was different.

                  Further I feel like anyone ridiculing him for giving that opinion on an open forum is baseless and classless. How did this whole petition thing start? That would be Don Allen and Mike Pavlick posting on Hydroracer and emailing 20ssh drivers (they both know I hold no ill will towards them either). That is exactly what Pat has done in opposition. Now because he has a relationship with APBA as a leader he can't speak his mind? Please Matt. Your opinion on this is laughable. Don Allen has a more influential 'seat' at the 20ss SW table because HE IS A STOCK COMMISSIONER! Pat runs the J committee, which is over seen by the APBA BOD. Do we need a class in how APBA runs? Is SW a J engine? When did that happen? When the merc crank change happened?

                  Matt you do what you want on the issue. Whether this petition passes or not Pat stood up for his side of the argument publicly and that means something.
                  Last edited by Racerkyle20; 03-12-2014, 01:34 AM.
                  Kyle Bahl
                  20-R

                  "He didn't bump you, he didn't nudge you, he rubbed you, and rubbin' son is racin'!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Racerkyle20 View Post
                    Call my relationship with Pat Gleason what you want. Team owner, Step-father, ex step-father, teammate, friend, whatever. I feel his position on the 20ss SW issue is valid, even if our relationship was different.

                    Further I feel like anyone ridiculing him for giving that opinion on an open forum is baseless and classless. How did this whole petition thing start? That would be Don Allen and Mike Pavlick posting on Hydroracer and emailing 20ssh drivers (they both know I hold no ill will towards them either). That is exactly what Pat has done in opposition. Now because he has a relationship with APBA as a leader he can't speak his mind? Please Matt. Your opinion on this is laughable. Don Allen has a more influential 'seat' at the 20ss SW table because HE IS A STOCK COMMISSIONER! Pat runs the J committee, which is over seen by the APBA BOD. Do we need a class in how APBA runs? Is SW a J engine? When did that happen? When the merc crank change happened?

                    Matt you do what you want on the issue. Whether this petition passes or not Pat stood up for his side of the argument publicly and that means something.
                    :thumbs::thumbs:
                    Mike - One of the Montana Boys

                    If it aint fast make it look good



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If I recall correctly Ron started this project because of people calling for a replacement for the hotrod motor. Look where we are now? To me the Canadian plan makes more sense, but that is my opinion. I have 20ss equipment and the sidewinder doesn't scare me. What does scare me is that people do not want to be part of the solution, so that means they must be part of the problem and that is what is wrong with APBA today.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Right Or Wrong

                        A person, whether in leadership or not has a right to express his/her opinion publically on a public issue. I would think a whole lot less of some folks if they tried to redirect, or somehow silence Pat's opinion. Passion is what got him to the leadership post. Now he is displaying his passion for an issue nd a couple folks here want to silence him ? Classless act. Go back to your own website.

                        Pat, While I don't agree with your opinion, I certainly support your right to express your opinion on this website, and any other without being called out for having an opinion. It kind of solitifies trailerbox protectors position....

                        Since this is a public forrum, here is my opinion. Any class that can't sustain itself nationaly with the original engine intent eg- Y80, should be eliminated and absorbed into the class structure somewhere. It should not be an addition to the days schedule.
                        Dave Mason
                        Just A Boat Racer

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          For the record.

                          I am not trying to silence anyone. Not even Pat. LOL

                          So when the statement of a couple people on here are trying to do that, who exacatly are you refering to?

                          If you are refering to me you are far from the truth.
                          "Ask anyone, I have no friends. I do have some people that put up with me and mostly because they like the rest of my family"

                          Don Allen

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I can understand the arguments on both sides of this issue.

                            But the one fact that I can't overcome is this:

                            You get a new guy interested in getting into 20ssH. What would you tell him to buy if all 4 engines were legal? (80, 102, 302, SW) Would you really tell him to buy a SW? No way, no how. Not when it's "years away from winning" as Pat has inferred. So why have a motor eligible in a class when it's not where you'd point a person to buy?

                            Especially when you can buy 302s and 80s all over the place...for MUCH less money and immediately be in the hunt.

                            The other part of this equation that makes no sense is this:

                            The 20SW is LEGAL in 3 other classes. BSH, BSR and 25ssR. What is preventing those that WANT this new engine from particpating in those classes? Especially when it's the motor of choice and clearly dominant in BSH and BSR. Yes, right now those classes don't exist west of the Mississippi. Well, if a few guys started running it...it would exist. It only takes 3-4 for a race. Those are the classes that need members...why not get those off the mat and truly make them national classes? Plus, you can win right now with that engine. Sounds like a much better answer than beating your head against the wall in 20ssH.

                            Plus...how many years would go by before the SORC would say..."We gotta do something to help the SW in 20ssH." Then what? Trying to achieve parity between that and the Yamato. Not possible One engine will always be faster than the other. Why open that can of worms with the 2nd largest class in Stock?



                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Dana what if that new guy was about 165 lbs and wanted to race BSH and purchased a Sidewinder 20 ci and a restrictor plate, than the new guys father who is 210 lbs gets the bug to race also, he can pull the restrictor and than race in a national class anywhere in the country. Or reverse the scenario, having the Sidewinder legal in 20ssh should also help the BSH class. Boy this scenario sounds like Dylan Runne and Rich Runne. Thanks Please keep the 20 Sidewinder in the 20ssh class.

                              Comment

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