20SSH Sidewinder Removal Proposal: Vote NO

[26V]

Dana,
one of the reasons for the SW in 20ssh is bang for the buck. yes its legal in 3 other class. the 302 is legal in how many? 20ssh, 25ssr, CSR, and CSH.
No I would not point a new 20ssh driver to the 20SW unless they want to run BSR and BSH. then 20ssh and 25ss are classes that they can run to gain experience.
So from my perspective what motor you recommend to a newbe depends on what their primary class will be. But any motor that you recommend to them should be able to run in multiple classes so that they can gain boat time!

[14J]

My Solution:

Keep it in the classes that it was approved for and move on, this includes 20SSH.

or

Buy back the motors (APBA) from those who purchased units specifically to run 20SSH and resell them into the B market.

[Big Don]

I like to point this out from time to time just to show the SORC does makes mistakes. We all do, in no way am I saying they should be perfect.

Just because they approved something, does not mean it was the correct decision. Does anyone remember the grandfathering of the records a few years ago??? Does anyone remember the hours we spent trying to figure out how to undo what we did the year before. I still think it was a mistake.

[dholt]

So if the status quo is kept...what is the "Motor of choice" in 20?

Isn't that the direction the SORC is taking with classes where new equipment is available along side current engines? One engine is designated the "choice"?

[14J]

I like to point this out from time to time just to show the SORC does makes mistakes. We all do, in no way am I saying they should be perfect.

Just because they approved something, does not mean it was the correct decision. Does anyone remember the grandfathering of the records a few years ago??? Does anyone remember the hours we spent trying to figure out how to undo what we did the year before. I still think it was a mistake.

I'm in agreement, mistakes are made. If the consensus is that this was a mistake it should and will be corrected. Note: I'm not suggesting that it was or was not.

I have a question for those opposed to keeping the motor in this class. The period of time between the approval of this motor and proposed removal date is relatively short. How do we handle the members who bought this motor to run 20SSH? Not those that can run a B class but those that will left without a home for their motor. I would imagine a $4900 motor will not be easy to sell given the current and potential pool of B drivers and the pro Yamato climate.

If this is the route we take I would simply suggest it carry an exit plan for those who will take it in the chin. Trust me I know there are a few.

Signed,

Glad I didn't buy one.

[Lee Sutter]

Sidewinder 20

I don't know much about the APBA, SORC, or the Parity committee structure, but I know this does not need to be mutually exclusive. This might be a dumb question. Why not give the SW 20 it's own hydro class on a probationary basis for about 2 years? In my opinion, it needs this to survive as the biggest potential buying pool is the 20 and "C" racers. And, still let it run in 20SSH class during the 2 year probationary period. At the end of 2 years drop it from 20SSH class. This could be a win-win!
To make room, move some old dead classes into the historic class program - DSR and 25SSH might be near the grave yard.

[Big Don]

Troy I don't have a good answer for that.

I have been asked the same question from someone that purchased a 302 a year ago and wanted to know if this fails, what do they do if the Sidewinder is the engine of choice. They wanted to know if the SORC was going to buy back the engines. Told them, "I doubt that will happen. I also said, you never know someone could make that motion and it might pass. So, I'm not going to say never."

I don't have a good answer for either party.

[Matt Dagostino]

Life of it's own......

I don't know much about the APBA, SORC, or the Parity committee structure, but I know this does not need to be mutually exclusive. This might be a dumb question. Why not give the SW 20 it's own hydro class on a probationary basis for about 2 years? In my opinion, it needs this to survive as the biggest potential buying pool is the 20 and "C" racers. And, still let it run in 20SSH class during the 2 year probationary period. At the end of 2 years drop it from 20SSH class. This could be a win-win!
To make room, move some old dead classes into the historic class program - DSR and 25SSH might be near the grave yard.

Lee
Funny how things like this Sidewinder issue seem to take on a life of there own..........in 2010 i was on the SORC when the motor got approved in the 20ssh class. I argued against it and there was not much discussion in part i believe due to the personalities in the room. But that's another story for another day. I believe the vote was close but the engine got approved. I was later told by folks within the Sidewinder program that the engines approval into the 20ssh class was more or less for testing purposes to set it up to be moved into the dead 25ssh class and resurrect it with the Sidewinder being the "Motor Of Choice' and the Merc's remaining in the class to help boat count and make a 'good class'. This theory matches what you are thinking by moving it to it's own class (sorta) with the 25ssh's.

Also it was explained to me by Sidewinder folks that if the 20ci engine had to go into it's own 'probationary class' in lieu of 20ssh there would not be enough of them to race or eventually have there own class. We just don't have the numbers we had in the 70's to support such a bold move.

As time has passed the 25ssh deal is a distant memory and as you point out, 20ssh and CSH is where the MARKET is and hence the push to keep the engine in place to sell motors!

So there's my history lesson on the engine getting approved which i think was wrong and should have gone to member ballot vote. Oh well.

It is so wrong to have 2 new available motors in one class and as someone pointed out, which one will the SORC Leadership designate as the Motor Of Choice as is the direction our SORC is taking??

It is always hard to correct a mistake when one is made, so i propose TROY buy back any Sidewinder 20ci that doesn't find a good home if it get's voted out of the class!!

[ram95]

Shuck-n-jive

This motor of choice discussion is moronic. So is the 'dominate motor' discussion. What rare "newbie" has got the bananas to pony up $4900 bucks for a SW much less $6900 bucks for a Tohatsu. The newbies almost don't give a crap for all our inane discussions of this sort.... they just think they want to get into racing. And they can only do it a few bucks at a time. So..., don't hand me all that other crap about "not steering a newbie toward the fastest/best-motor rig in town"...Stop!! The person is a "newbie" afterall. Let them buy a second class rig and learn the ropes. Let them enter the sport incrementally, a few bucks at a time to get them hooked. THEN... THEN... maybe they can decide what they want to run. And, then... just maybe, they might decide they can make the rig they have bought run better. Just like Pat Gleason (beating his head against a post ..). far from a newbie... but he's working on making his rig run. That's what racing is about fer crissakes. Leave the SW in 20, go buy a Tamato 80 or whatever... and go racing. But whatever else... don't dumb down the rules to accomdate the SW.

[PittmanRacing]

We are relatively new to stock outboard. My daughter is 3 seasons into it and I am returning for fun. We started with nothing and at the end of season 1 purchased a good OMC A to race in another class. That was obsoleted that first season by the larger SW. So, will the SORC please buy back my $2700 motor for not picking the "engine of choice"?

[G Stillwill]

Where do you get a new/used 302 right now and when you do get one at some point how will it compare with the older ones with the changes made to the newer ones

[Big Don]

How about this...

We have on this issue.

We all have our opinions, let's not bash each other, I don't think any of us are going to change anyones opinion. Let's let the ballot play out and whatever wins, we move on.

Unless we want another 20,000 view thread?????

I am in no way trying to stop anyone's opinion or their opportunity to share their views. But let's stop the bashing of Sidewinder and Yamato. If you want to share the side you are on than post away. We can all poke holes in each side and we have all seen them in the other thread.

Also, once again I do not have issue with Pat's sharing his opinion or view. I do not have issue with Pat being the chairman of the J committee and sharing his view.

It's in the drivers hands.

[Dave M]

Suggestion

I am all for new engines into boat racing. Without innovation companies die, boat racing is no different. There is a need for new engines, new hulls, technology leveraged for our sport. What I don't think is neceassary is trying to find a home within the current structure. Class numbers are already strained in most regions. So why not take Lee's suggestion and create a new class just for the new engine. You can then steer a newbie in that direction, they can buy it today (hopefully), and there is NO adjustments over the course of ten years to make it competitive with what is there. It is a turn key operation that adds value. If this takes place, obviosuly some other things have to go. Weak classes need eliminated, without hesitiation. Take those eliminated and make those engines legal in another class. If you combined stock & Mod into one category you could see how easy this would be to accomplish without eliminating anyone. I know that is off topic, but when you are making decisions on engines of choice, and parity, you truly need to think about the big picture and not just 20SSH. Without vision you keep beating the dead horse.

[ryan_4z]

I haven't received my ballot and would like to cast a vote for the future. Who should I contact to make sure my voice gets heard?

[sponsonhead]

I haven't received my ballot and would like to cast a vote for the future. Who should I contact to make sure my voice gets heard?

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