Don't let Region 6 kill Sidewinder

[pav225]

George,
That's fantastic, but current motor availability doesn't mean that a given motor should be in the 20ssH class. I can go to BassPro shops and pick up a Mercury off the shelf...doesn't mean it should be legal in 20ssH.

Quick delivery times for a 20ci SW is good news and should support growth in the B class.

Mike

[kev29p]

Has anyone asked or answered the obvious question here of why the heck do you want 3 different 302 hydro classes running each day? Are the speeds, boats, or handling really that much much different? Why not have one class, with everyone racing against each other at once? Increase the number of laps or heats giving more bang for the buck. 35 Years now i have been hearing the same complaint that there are too many classes, now you guys are making 3 classes out of one! If the 302ssh class works so well, make that the class.

[DiGia54D]

Has anyone asked or answered the obvious question here of why the heck do you want 3 different 302 hydro classes running each day? Are the speeds, boats, or handling really that much much different? Why not have one class, with everyone racing against each other at once? Increase the number of laps or heats giving more bang for the buck. 35 Years now i have been hearing the same complaint that there are too many classes, now you guys are making 3 classes out of one! If the 302ssh class works so well, make that the class.

Thats the point I was making. But what do I know..lol

[kev29p]

Thats the point I was making. But what do I know..lol

About as much as me?! Did anyone address your point? Maybe long days on the judges stand and as many starts as possible to call is the secret goal...

[Matt Dagostino]

Classes

About as much as me?! Did anyone address your point? Maybe long days on the judges stand and as many starts as possible to call is the secret goal...

Kevin
You know in todays world of high dollar club costs to host just a weekend CLUB race it costs THOUSANDS of dollars!! Many times around $6000.

Even if we cut our Stock Outboard classes from 12 to say 8 we would still need to run MOD's or whatever else we can to pay the 'bills' for the weekend!

Clubs need ENTERIES. Like you, i would like to see the old days of A B C D J.

But in todays world i am not sure that will ever be the case.

[kev29p]

Matt, no offense, but I think that is a lousy point. If you provide an attractive format where an entry fee is double or heaven forbid even triple or more, RACERS will pay it. Make the Yamato class your premier class, run it at 2:00 each day with the "enhanced format", and the RACERS will love it. Come on man, I know you're getting older but you remember how the Merc Challenge format worked, right?! How many guys never finished in the money, but ran the classes to be part of the premier classes! Keep on using the excuse that without a million classes and a million 30 dollar entry fees the sport can't survive, and this discussion will continue to be had until it eventually dies.

[PittmanRacing]

We also have to acknowledge the only real stock classes in stock now are 302SS, 15SW, 20SW and maybe the D Tohatsu (don't know enough about it to say for sure). This is why I referred to the "barriers to entry" in the stock category. I believe this is why the OMC A was successful. When introduced Edger and others were extreme in keeping it "stock". Too many years without new models and letting rules slide or changing from true stock results in the classes being less attractive to new racers.

[smirnoff]

And the majority wonder why the sport continues to decline, & decline, & decline......

[bill boyes]

Go to a 3 heat format for classes that have more than 6 boats. We complain about the long day but that is our own fault. Cut down on the 2 boat field and run a 3 heat format. Raise the entry fee to off set the loss of income from the 2 boat entries.
But this is a Sidewinder thread so we need to beat up the motor more.
4 classes with the 302 motor, CSH,20ssh,OSY 302ssh. all boats the same. Oh Hum. When can I buy a motor? next summer?

[Matt Dagostino]

Maybe

Matt, no offense, but I think that is a lousy point. If you provide an attractive format where an entry fee is double or heaven forbid even triple or more, RACERS will pay it. Make the Yamato class your premier class, run it at 2:00 each day with the "enhanced format", and the RACERS will love it. Come on man, I know you're getting older but you remember how the Merc Challenge format worked, right?! How many guys never finished in the money, but ran the classes to be part of the premier classes! Keep on using the excuse that without a million classes and a million 30 dollar entry fees the sport can't survive, and this discussion will continue to be had until it eventually dies.

Kev
Maybe your right. See if your club DVORA is willing to try a Millville where you schedule say 8 classes and charge $100 per class entry fee and run the class say 4 times??

We will come regardless and support ANY format. Just not sure if that OPC style format would gather traction???

And yes i do remember the Merc Challenge (i am not completely senile yet) and that is a different deal. That was a FACTORY backed series. Now if we had a old school Blue Chip Challenge (now the Dash For Cash) series you might have something there!! Good times!

[bill boyes]

Look at Rule 2 (10) pg 8 REGATTAS.
Run a 3 heat format. Those with eliminations the 13 plus boats get at least 2 heats. Run a one heat final.
We have to do something other than what we have done in the past as it is not working. We cannot continue to do the same thing and expect a different result.
What is our clubs biggest expense other than Insurance?
AMBULANCE!!!! Shorten the race day with less classes and a few more heats so that racers get more bang for their buck.
Now back to Sidewinder thread

[RLR]

3Heat format

Bill, USTS runs short 4 hour program with 3 heat format or 5 heat if needed, it works better than anything I have ever seen. The 3rd heat for everyone if 5 heats are run, go to the top 12 in points.

[kev29p]

Kev
Maybe your right. See if your club DVORA is willing to try a Millville where you schedule say 8 classes and charge $100 per class entry.

And yes i do remember the Merc Challenge (i am not completely senile yet) and that is a different deal. That was a FACTORY backed series. Now if we had a old school Blue Chip Challenge (now the Dash For Cash) series you might have something there!! Good times!

Factory backed, but did the guys who never placed in the money get anything from the factory? Engines cost the equivalent of a new Sidewinder or worked Yamato. I have to admit i am talking out my a$$ as to entry fees being 30. I have no idea what they are up to. 25 was about normal back when I can remember, (early 90's). How much per class at a Millville race these days?
The last OPC entry fee I remember in about 2004 was 250 for 50 laps of racing and 2 test sessions. It is like comparing apples to oranges though when it comes to race formats...

[Matt Dagostino]

Dvora

Factory backed, but did the guys who never placed in the money get anything from the factory? Engines cost the equivalent of a new Sidewinder or worked Yamato. I have to admit i am talking out my a$$ as to entry fees being 30. I have no idea what they are up to. 25 was about normal back when I can remember, (early 90's). How much per class at a Millville race these days?
The last OPC entry fee I remember in about 2004 was 250 for 50 laps of racing and 2 test sessions. It is like comparing apples to oranges though when it comes to race formats...

I believe your club has a staggered entry fee but it averages $25 per class.............

Well, the race format is only comparable to OPC Series Racing in the sense that you would run fewer classes under your idea and get more boat time while paying a higher entry fee to cover the race/club cost.

And yes, most of the Merc Challenge guys competed to be 'part' of the show.

Again,your format is not a bad idea, but what classes do you leave behind???

[kev29p]

Wow, entry fee is still only 25 bucks??? That is insane. No wonder people get upset at paying modern prices for other items!

My idea is not to leave anyone behind, simply to condense the similar classes into one! 20ssh, 25xsh, 302ssh, CSH all run similar sized boats at similar speeds with a similar torquey heavy feel. Pick a version of a 302 class and go with it. That class is your "show" that runs at 2:00 with an enhanced format. The rest is the same. Shorter day overall and less messing around with restrictors, props, heights, etc. More time for beer drinking and story telling while the sun is still up.

The Blue Chip Challenge... That was a big factory,corporate effort right?! A Polish company as I remember! Troy has some connection...