Don't let Region 6 kill Sidewinder

[Matt Dagostino]

Parity sucks

Oh yeah take a good look at the sst120/200 mess those motors were supposed to be equal too.
Kris Shepard
member 1998[/QUOTE]


There is no such thing as PARITY. A Motor Of Choice has to be established and the other Motors in the class are there to help boat count only and perhaps provide an affordable entry into the class to start. Commissions have to STEP UP and make the hard decision of what Motor is to be the Motor Of Choice to provide direction to it's members!!

Shep's example is just a more recent example of OPC's problems by allowing multiple 'currently' produced Motors in one class. Let's try to keep Stock Outboard out of this quandary!

[bill boyes]

From the beach watching a boat race how do I tell the difference between a 20ss and a CSH both with 302 motors. I sure as heck cannot see the restrictor from the beach or anywhere unless the Carb cover is removed.

[Big Don]

From the beach watching a boat race how do I tell the difference between a 20ss and a CSH both with 302 motors. I sure as heck cannot see the restrictor from the beach or anywhere unless the Carb cover is removed.

Really? I've been around racing since 1969 and no one has ever come up to me and said anything close to that. A good announcer will make sure any spectators know what is going on. When I'm watching a bike race I don't have a clue what CC they are.

[Big Don]

[QUOTE=3rd Chance;230100]

While its fun to speculate, we should probably wait for Ricky or TJ to reply.

Let me be Devil's advocate here. What happens if AJ happens to be right? Let's say we are no longer able to import Yamatos. Now you have motors in two classes (20 & C) that we can no longer get.

My point here is before you vote the 20ci Sidewinder out of 20ssh, stock outboard should have some imput from the importers on the status of the 302.

I have no dog in the fight. I just want to see our sport succeed, as most people on here do.

Let me be the Devil's advocate. What happens if Ron decides he's done. Then what. We can all play the what if game all day.

[3rd Chance]

Maybe Ron will pack it in at some point but that's neither here nor there. Maybe Sidewinder only has 5 motors available and can only produce 10 in x amount of time. I don't know the answer but I think this is info that Stock should know so they can make appropriate decisions moving forward.

My point being is that you have a proposal out there with no input from either Yamato or Sidewinder.

[G Stillwill]

How about we not refer to the 302 as a new motor its a used motor that has to have the gear case shaped, prop shaft changed and the power head gone through if you want it be competitive make sure the new person understands that. The 20ci motor is ready when you get it adjust the carb needle and race plus its a new not used motor and dont tell me they dont run right I have a new one that runs just fine. I dont plan of running it in 20SS anyway so it doesnt matter what you all decide just hope your not shooting yourself in the foot doing it.

[53-W]

The sidewinder will never run correctly with the carb on the side in it current design!!! It is wrong, any real two stroke engineer will tell you this!!!
For those that do not know an experimental crankcase was tested out at the nationals. someone built an front carb, crankcase for the side winder.
It picked up 2 MPH just by putting the carb where it belongs on the engine. The front carb case was not even 100% correct yet, as the crank was binding in the case in spots and running hot.
So don't be saying that the engine runs fine!! For what I have seen they extremely tempermental to air changes, rpm, air temp, ect.
It really needs to be put on probation until it is 100% correct.

[Apachemax]

How about we not refer to the 302 as a new motor its a used motor that has to have the gear case shaped, prop shaft changed and the power head gone through if you want it be competitive make sure the new person understands that. The 20ci motor is ready when you get it adjust the carb needle and race plus its a new not used motor and dont tell me they dont run right I have a new one that runs just fine. I dont plan of running it in 20SS anyway so it doesnt matter what you all decide just hope your not shooting yourself in the foot doing it.

Having a USED 302 blueprinted and built is still not a bad price to go racing.
How often do you have to adjust the carb needle on your SW?

[G Stillwill]

Having a USED 302 blueprinted and built is still not a bad price to go racing.
How often do you have to adjust the carb needle on your SW?

Never touched the needle since I set it after breaking the motor in both A motors have the same size jet in them as they did when I set them both up when new I have played with jets but end up right back to the ones that im using. The 20ci motor will have a fixed jet as soon as I have time to go through them to find the right size. As far as cost the bought just the 20ci power head and put it on a hotrod tower had a small piece welded on the back of the hotrod skeg total cost 3350.00 ready to race,

[Racerkyle20]

also, as to getting the 302's from Japan, it is not a question of availability, just more of an issue with GOVERNMENT regulations and importing of non-emissions compliant 2 strokes into the US (even being they are used for racing only).................
.

AJ, Matt D, Don, D3, Mike Pav et al. THIS Statement is why we cannot rely on imported 302 motors. The EPA gives Rick the riot act for months on end to import the 302. Now he hasn't had to do it in 7 years, but this year is even more difficult for the current 30 he's trying to bring in. The amount of paperwork, scrutiny, etc to import these non compliant 2 strokes is insane. Rick is doing outboarding a favor by importing them through his company. Rick is in good health, but we cannot rely on just him for the next 20-30 years of boat racing. We need available motors built in the US for the future of outboard stock racing. If we all want to continue racing 2 strokes. The 302 is a great engine, I just don't trust the government when it comes to emissions stuff. They will tell us NO at some point. Then If we want 302's in the US from Japan, we'll have to import them in parts, one by one, then piece them back together. That's best case.

You kill sidewinder in 20 and sidewinder decides to leave boat racing, then we have no American made engines for 2 stroke racing, period. That's were this will lead to if we're not careful.

[csh2z]

The point has been made, the 20S & the 302 should not both be in the same class together. The petition is out there, we expect it will garner enough signatures to force the SORC to take the 20S out of 20SSH. There is no need for complaining about the past, the past is the past and we can't change any of it.
It's time to move on, get positive and do the best we can to plan for the future. Nothing is lost, the 20S will be in a position to grow and succeed.
This argument, as far as I'm concerned, should be over, it serves no positive purpose.

[Racerkyle20]

The point has been made, the 20S & the 302 should not both be in the same class together. The petition is out there, we expect it will garner enough signatures to force the SORC to take the 20S out of 20SSH. .

The SORC has nothing to do with this. The 30% signatures of 20ssh drivers will force a ballot item for 20ssh drivers to vote the motor in/out of the class. SORC does nothing at this point, as far as I can see. BTW still waiting for my petition in mail....LOL. I know Don emailed me, but I'm guessing he wasn't going to waste the stamp for the one 20S sidewinder driver in the west...ha.

[csh2z]

I stand corrected, Kyle. That doesn't change the outcome. Some fights are not worth fighting and I believe this situation to be one of those cases. It is very divisive and we just don't need that. We have another option that members on both sides can rally around and support. I've known these guys for many years and believe the decision to write this petition was not easy for them. Their passion for this sport is multi-generational and as deep as ours. The way things have evolved in the last few years in the 20SS class supports their case.
The bottom line is we all need each other to work towards the common goal of stabilizing our class structure in order to promote Stock Outboard.

[DiGia54D]

Seeing that Montoya has been doing this a long time. I would guess he would warn APBA that in the next coming years he would not be able to get them anymore because of Goverment issues. We cant go by what IFS or Could happen in the future until Rick says otherwise.
I will say this...I was in Lock Haven this year and I finaly was able to see a good amount of sidewinders run. I didnt see any issues with them not running well. There was some **** good racing there and a ton of boats

[ajennings4p]

AJ, Matt D, Don, D3, Mike Pav et al. THIS Statement is why we cannot rely on imported 302 motors. The EPA gives Rick the riot act for months on end to import the 302. Now he hasn't had to do it in 7 years, but this year is even more difficult for the current 30 he's trying to bring in. The amount of paperwork, scrutiny, etc to import these non compliant 2 strokes is insane. Rick is doing outboarding a favor by importing them through his company. Rick is in good health, but we cannot rely on just him for the next 20-30 years of boat racing. We need available motors built in the US for the future of outboard stock racing. If we all want to continue racing 2 strokes. The 302 is a great engine, I just don't trust the government when it comes to emissions stuff. They will tell us NO at some point. Then If we want 302's in the US from Japan, we'll have to import them in parts, one by one, then piece them back together. That's best case.

You kill sidewinder in 20 and sidewinder decides to leave boat racing, then we have no American made engines for 2 stroke racing, period. That's were this will lead to if we're not careful.

kyle i was just trying to make the point the 302 might not be an available engine to be imported because of the government say maybe in the next 3-5 years.