Don't let Region 6 kill Sidewinder

[mike akerstrom8-B]

I agree with Reed. As a 20 Hydro driver, I see no reason to kill the sidewinder in 20. There are fast sidewinders out there, but from what i've seen the sidewinder isn't any faster than the restricted 302 or the 80 and furthermore, i think this entire thread is completely ridiculous. The A class and the 20 class are two completely different things with different problems. If it isn't broken, then don't try to fix it.

[D_Allen_III]

I agree with Reed. As a 20 Hydro driver, I see no reason to kill the sidewinder in 20. There are fast sidewinders out there, but from what i've seen the sidewinder isn't any faster than the restricted 302 or the 80 and furthermore, i think this entire thread is completely ridiculous. The A class and the 20 class are two completely different things with different problems. If it isn't broken, then don't try to fix it.

I'll ask the question again Mike, because I too agree that the 20ci Sidewinder currently does not pose a threat to the Yamato 302 or 80 (or 102 for that matter).

Assuming the finish line and final goal of the 20ci Sidewinder project is to win boat races and be able to win in the 20SSH class (which it should be if the engine is to stay in the class, why would people want to race an engine in a class if the goal isn't to win eventually?), why would we not be proactive instead of reactive when addressing the situation?

We currently have a 302 engine which is available, why are we going to try and have parity between two current engines? Which one should get the advantage? We have avoided that issue for a long time and most people are under the opinion that the parity issue can never be 100% resolved.

I think your rationale is to avoid addressing the situation until it becomes a bigger problem, which would REALLY anger people when they've spent all the money, time and effort to become competitive. Ignoring the possible problem is just putting it off until it has to be addressed, which is the same point people are much more angry when they work has been taken away. That to me doesn't make sense.

[D_Allen_III]

Question?
Do the SORC membership really want a new Motor??
Remember the 302. I know I had the first one on the West Coast. It was going to blow the socks off the 102's. DID IT? Remember c2???
Remember the Merc 15 in A. It was going to blow the socks off the OMC. DID IT? no it was a back marker. The A class voted "NO" to Restrict the OMC. so the Merc went to J and AX then came along a guy named George and made the Merc run. Now the Merc is the Motor of choice in the J class.
Remember the Merc 44 still on going saga where the D owners did not want the Tohatsu . They still don't!!!
Now we have the SW and OMC in A. Don says the the A class in Region 7 is dead. OK now look at the A class in Region 12? It it dying?
Remember the Y80 was dying so the restricted 302 was brought in. It was 2-3 miles off the Y 80 until Father/Son named Perman came along and woke up the 302 in the 20ssh class. Now it seems the motor of choice in the 20 class. And why not, heck look at all the classes that can be run with the motor.
Now comes along the SW 20 motor. The y80/302 owners say OH WAIT not in my class. It going to blow the socks off my y80/302.
I will answer my own question of " Do the Members of the SORC want a new motor." I would say YES but not in MY CLASS.
My final comment the 302 it a great motor. At the old CSH rules it just had a very hard time competing with the 102.
Then after15 years the SORC lowered the CSH height and the 302 CC's a little. Now the 302 is the motor of choice because they are AVAILABLE and COMPETITIVE.

You are leaving out the important detail that under the current class layout and engine choices, the 302 is a currently produced engine, that is available for purchase and use in the 20SSH class. All the situations you addressed above were when stock outboard did not have another new and available engine for those classes at the time. That is the #1 issue in regards to the whole situation, how and why would the stock category endorse two different and currently produced engines?

[Jack Stotts]

Don, why not? Jack

[mike akerstrom8-B]

Don,
you are right about acting proactively instead of reactively, but i never said that the sidewinder was not a threat. A few years ago Jeff Brewster brought his sidewinder 20 to Taunton, MA and won the race. We fought on the racecourse all weekend, and it didn't appear to me that his sidewinder had an advantage over my restricted 302, and conversely that my restricted 302 didn't have an advantage over his sidewinder. Brewster won because he got better starts than me and i just couldn't get around him. I'm not convinced that parity needs to be established between the 302 and the sidewinder because in my opinion they are as close as they are going to get in the 20 class. I think it is a shame what happened to the A class in region 7, but i think that problem needs to be dealt with in the A class, not the 20 class.

[D_Allen_III]

Don, why not? Jack

Why not what? Have them both? If so, see the previous 125 posts with the various reasons answering that question.

[fourty-eight N]

leave the SW 20ci, its up to the customer which motor he wants to lay the money out for right? so what if he wants to spend the money on sw, thats their decision. if they want to buy a yamato theyll buy a yamato.

[csh2z]

Max,
The main point is that with two new available motors in the same class, we can't confidently promote either one. If the Sidewinder is out of 20SSH, we can tell a perspective new racer exactly to what expect for the future of that class. Having a definite motor of choice in each class is the closest we will get to the "one motor per class concept", which will stabilize the rules for that class for the foreseeable future. If we can do that with every class, we can eliminate the parity committees that cause constant change in an effort to make a level playing field. If we can stabilize our class structure, we will soon have a sport that we can proudly promote. There are a lot of people in boat racing that are on the fence, not doing anything for fear of making a mistake with their finite racing budget. If we, the decision makers of this organization can make a commitment to a long term plan, current and perspective boat racers will be willing to make a commitment.

[ajennings4p]

besides the 30 motors that Montoya is having trouble importing into the USA. how many other 302's are brand new (non us raced) ready to be sold?

SORC has 8 for the 302ssh only motors so they don't count.

[Racerkyle20]

besides the 30 motors that Montoya is having trouble importing into the USA. how many other 302's are brand new (non us raced) ready to be sold?

SORC has 8 for the 302ssh only motors so they don't count.

None that I'm aware.....besides those 8.

[ajennings4p]

None that I'm aware.....besides those 8.

so at this point in time. the only new available motor is the sidewinder- why are we not promoting this? it seems like these 30 motors from Montoya might be the last ones might be able to get, so its not the motor that will always be here. we need to promote for the future of outboard racing! this is why i don't like racing stock, too many people want to change too many things without reason.

[pav225]

Yamato

While its fun to speculate, we should probably wait for Ricky or TJ to reply.

While we are waiting...check out some links from the Yamato Outboard (makers of the Y302) and boat racing in Japan.

http://www.kyo-tei.com/

http://www.yamato-motor.co.jp/

As long as there is gambling on boat racing in Japan, Yamato will need to make engines.

Enjoy the links!
Mike

[Apachemax]

so at this point in time. the only new available motor is the sidewinder- why are we not promoting this? it seems like these 30 motors from Montoya might be the last ones might be able to get, so its not the motor that will always be here. we need to promote for the future of outboard racing! this is why i don't like racing stock, too many people want to change too many things without reason.

So there is 30 302s nearly available, how many 20CI sidewinders are readily available?

[3rd Chance]

Devil's advocate

[QUOTE=pav225;230098]While its fun to speculate, we should probably wait for Ricky or TJ to reply.

Let me be Devil's advocate here. What happens if AJ happens to be right? Let's say we are no longer able to import Yamatos. Now you have motors in two classes (20 & C) that we can no longer get.

My point here is before you vote the 20ci Sidewinder out of 20ssh, stock outboard should have some imput from the importers on the status of the 302.

I have no dog in the fight. I just want to see our sport succeed, as most people on here do.

[Shep]

It is simple for me. It's about Available resources.

If i were to buy a sidewinder I have about $2000.00 less to race with. (that's quite a few races)

I don't have any resources in the pits to learn from. ( lot's of experienced yamato people out there willing to help )

I have to bring all the parts to fix it. ( sidewinder new enough don't know what is going to break, might have to buy two so I have a donor motor )

My thoughts as I consider Little Shep's next step.
I know I can buy a GOOD sst 45 for the cost to get a sidewinder rig going.

Oh yeah take a good look at the sst120/200 mess those motors were supposed to be equal too.

Kris Shepard
member 1998