Sidewinder report

[14-H]

This sounds very familiar. History does seem to repeat itself! Same thing happened when they eventually outlawed the KG4 engines (1984) in the A class. The A classes (ASR/ ASH) at that time were two of the most popular classes in APBA. I remember 3 elimination heats in ASR at Lockhaven, and that was not long before they were outlawed. We lost a lot of boat racers when that happened... can we afford to loose that many again?

Bill: The OMC A worked. Look at the numbers. Our membership increased after that engine was introduced. However, those engines ran and there were hundreds available for sale when the KG4's were outlawed. That circumstance does not exist with the Sidewinders.

[14-H]

They way I look at it, the OMCs cannot run in the APBA forever. ****.. it's time for new generation equipment to take over. We cant race in the past forever.
.

I totally agree with this. In my opinion, Racing Outboards is squandering a real opportunity. I wish they would figure out how to make these engines run.

[MGallagher]

Ed- why do you not purchase a Sidewinder, if you haven't already, and/or take one of your hot rods and "redesign" it to help prove your points on the potential problems the current version might have.

[Ron Hill]

I Don't Think So!

Ed was very forth right about what he sees wrong with the Sidewinder.

My dad (Dead since 1997).
Roy Miner (Dead since before 1997)
Bob Davidson (About 90 years old)
Wilson Seaman (Dead since before 1997)

These four, I know could make a Champion Hot Rod run and run well. I'm sure there were other and are others, most don't share their secrets.

Ed told everyone why he think this Sidewinder has major troubles.....From what I have hear, there are only 13 Sidewinder out in the field. These motors are basically hand built race motors, why should Ed buy one and hand build it, and probably obsolete the 13 that were built?

Give the Sidewinder the 15 SS Runabout and Hydro class and tell them "Good luck getting the sum ***** running."

there are already 87 classes, what is the "BIG DEAL" about making two more???

ADD:

As far as KG-4, Mark 15's....Give them their own class (Make sure the transom height rule would fit current OMC/Merc transoms, and watch this class grow. I'll bet there are over 150 KG-4's and Mark 15s laying around this country that would start on one pull...we, maybe several pulls!

[csh2z]

Whatever you say Ed. You have all the answers.

[14-H]

Ed- why do you not purchase a Sidewinder, if you haven't already, and/or take one of your hot rods and "redesign" it to help prove your points on the potential problems the current version might have.

Matt: 3 years ago, I asked the owner to let me purchase just a new Sidewinder block so I could put it on a Hot Rod front end in order to ensure that the new sandcast block with a machined transfer passage was not part of the problem (the Hot Rod blocks have die cast transfer passages). This would have isolated the front end as being where the performance problem is. I was told that the factory would not sell me just a block until the old Hot Rod blocks were all sold out.

The response totally missed the point of my offer and I gave up. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.

[14-H]

Whatever you say Ed. You have all the answers.

That is the problem. The factory should have all the answers, not an outsider.

[guedo499]

Proverbs 16:18...

Hey Eddy, I have some humble pie left over, want me to send you over a slice?

[MGallagher]

Bill-Ed knows that my posts was not devisive or intended to be "snarky." It was an actual question and in no way was I implying to compete with the motor that Ed would have tinkered with.
Ed- If the story is as you said it, you should know that asking for such a request, especially from you, might have been taken with some skeptisism. You should have not given up so easy and purchased an entire motor and did your initial tests a little more descretely. Oh well.

I'm sure this thread has been constructive for the project and given the advancements in Sidewinder performance this year, we should hope to see many more achievements next year as well.

[reed28n]

Hand made??

Ed was very forth right about what he sees wrong with the Sidewinder.

My dad (Dead since 1997).
Roy Miner (Dead since before 1997)
Bob Davidson (About 90 years old)
Wilson Seaman (Dead since before 1997)

These four, I know could make a Champion Hot Rod run and run well. I'm sure there were other and are others, most don't share their secrets.

Ed told everyone why he think this Sidewinder has major troubles.....From what I have hear, there are only 13 Sidewinder out in the field. These motors are basically hand built race motors, why should Ed buy one and hand build it, and probably obsolete the 13 that were built?

Give the Sidewinder the 15 SS Runabout and Hydro class and tell them "Good luck getting the sum ***** running."

there are already 87 classes, what is the "BIG DEAL" about making two more???

ADD:

As far as KG-4, Mark 15's....Give them their own class (Make sure the transom height rule would fit current OMC/Merc transoms, and watch this class grow. I'll bet there are over 150 KG-4's and Mark 15s laying around this country that would start on one pull...we, maybe several pulls!

All motors from any manufacture are assembled by a pair of hands. If you look back at George Stillwell's post. The inspectors at Grass Lake inspected the winning Sidewinder(that will never work that is threatening all OMC's in existence) and the 2nd place Sidewinder (that was clearly flawed). The independent inspectors noted that there was not .0001" differnce on any of the measurements between the two motors. Jean's motor was one of the first out there and Georges was the most recent assembled.

They are all pretty close, any updates have been communicated to all sidewinder owners and motors have been returned to receive these updates.

The Hot Rod owners are still a little sore becasue they wanted to see the motor and class continue on the same path Moulder had established. Build more parts for a 1950's motor. (not saying that was wrong) And yes the 15 Hot Rod is an awesome little motor that has a 60 plus year head start on the sidewinder in the 15ss class - so I am willing to give Racing Outboard and its team of engineers and assemblers a little more time to perfect the 15 motor for the B class.

Looks like they are pretty close with the A class and pretty close with the 20 version...

[Hutch06]

"Pretty close to the A and 20 Class"...

This is all great that things are close at this point with A and 20, but wasn't the motor first introduced to the B class? If we are talking about a class that needs a new powerplant, the B classes is the most in need by far! I just don't understand why the Sidewinder was approved so quickly for A and 20 when the thing was not even close in the B class.

I applaud the owners and makers of the motor for the success it has had in the A class. But if our priority is to have new motors available, wouldn't the B class be the highest on that list? One of the biggest arguments behind this, especially those OMC owners is that "Why are we messing with one of the largest classes in Stock and potentially killing it?" Yes the OMC is old, and yes it does need to be replaced down the road, GRADUALLY. This is all being said when the Mercury is quickly approaching A speeds and is "in production" also.

The same goes for the 20 class with the Y302... I just wonder where thinking was on this...

[PittmanRacing]

Can't we learn from past success?

I don't know the history at all on the introduction of the 302. It seems that this was done very well. Now, over time, it is becoming the predominant motor for C & 20, while still leaving room for older motors to compete and phase out. The same forethought and process should be applied to A. If the 302 was introduced in the same way for those classes, many of the same problems we are dealing with now would have happened. Let's learn from past success as a process for introducing new and needed motors.

Paul

[krazy karl]

I don't know the history at all on the introduction of the 302. It seems that this was done very well. Now, over time, it is becoming the predominant motor for C & 20, while still leaving room for older motors to compete and phase out. The same forethought and process should be applied to A. If the 302 was introduced in the same way for those classes, many of the same problems we are dealing with now would have happened. Let's learn from past success as a process for introducing new and needed motors.

Paul

Exactly

[Matt Dagostino]

Not true

I don't know the history at all on the introduction of the 302. It seems that this was done very well.. Let's learn from past success as a process for introducing new and needed motors.

Paul

Call Sam Hemp to get the history of the 302 introduction...........it is lucky we still have the engine after the 'bashing' it took through it's early years!!

Matt

[Ron Hill]

And Ric Montoya Still Has 40-50 302 Yamto Motors

I don't know the history at all on the introduction of the 302. It seems that this was done very well. Now, over time, it is becoming the predominant motor for C & 20, while still leaving room for older motors to compete and phase out. The same forethought and process should be applied to A. If the 302 was introduced in the same way for those classes, many of the same problems we are dealing with now would have happened. Let's learn from past success as a process for introducing new and needed motors.

Paul

From what I hear, there are only 13 Sidewinders in "Racers" hands. The 302, on the other hand, are 40-50 motors strong in Ric Montoya;s shop. They can be purchased for around $2,000 and for less than a grand more you can have a GOOD C and 20 Motor....

I doubt that we will see 40-50 Sidewinders in our life time!