Combined Class & Category Proposal

[Phil Fronce]

I just don't understand this love affair with the APBA, if it's not working go some place else. The NBRA obviously has a business/promotion model that's working.

[Danny Pigott]

Ron I got off track a ittle, I'am saying that Kart racing has some of the same problems as boat racing , they have too many classes an it takes all day and half the night to run a lot of the races The Kart shops have the power to control the rules so they make money. It has very little spectator appeal even though it is one of the toughest racing there is, very little protection for the driver think about going in the first turn 15th in a 30 Kart field . They have the same problem as boat racing people start fail and never come back..99 percent of them are not your friend. It is not this way in boat racing most everybody are your friend and will help you if needed. After the race we talk party and have fun . One thing is wrong is alot of the boats are to small for there class a rule change in MOD back in the 70's to make the boats bigger failed because it made them to big. But like the Kart Shop only a few people make the rules in apba In about 78 i tried to get the short Tower approved for D MOD an E MOD (44) the vote was a tie so the rule stayed the same a lot of people did not want to give up there Bayer Tower even if the short Tower made the boats safer and better to drive later they passed this rule I have a lot more to say at some other time. Anybody know why when the 25ss Merc came out a few people were really fast an were hard to beat.

[Ron Hill]

Finally, someone speaks the truth. There is NO FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN KNEEL DOWN RACING IN THE APBA AND NBRA. The difference is that right now the NBRA has people getting sponsorships. My club only put on one race this year, WHY? because as a club we did not make it happen. Plain and simple. When we have people working on "good" race sites with sponsors we have them - ie Candlewick.

Not wanting to start World War III here, but to me the difference between APBA and NBRA is "BIGGER THAN ****".

Your own words: "NBRA has people getting sponsorships"..........Hello, APBA has a $450,000 FACEBOOK EFFORT......NBRA has no unfunded liabilities that I'm aware of....

What APBA should do, is hire someone like my brother, to structure about three divisions: Russ is old, but at one point during the Stealth Bomber era he had like 700 reporting to him.

Professional
Participant
Novice

Everyone that has ever helped change a rule or made a rule change has a reason, I've seldom seen a rule change that GREW boat racing. People get elected to a position, then, they sit on their ladder and surround themselves with "YES" People.

OMC bragged that they had ENGINEERS running their company. 20 years before they went broke, my brother told Charlie Strang OMC should have BUSINESS people running OMC.....

Boat Racing is a mess, but like our government, until boat racing and our government goes flat broke, nothing will change.

We have had some growth in AXS and A Hydro here in Region 12. Anyone wonder what "Template" we are using???

Beside my brother, I'll offer up the name Mike Quindazzi, Jr. Mike recently sold his interest in a motorcycle magazine. His company did work for the Boss of Direct TV, who had been on "The Under Cover Boss" and wanted help with his corporation.

Mike has organized our Boat Racing's effort at two boat shows this year.


Mike's dad raced. Mike has driven boats since he was 9.

ADD:

My fear is no CURRENT BOAT RACERS would want to hear what someone like my brother or Mike Quindazzi had to say and further, NO CURRENT BOAT RACERS would want to follow the suggestions anyway!

[Ron Hill]

Ron I got off track a ittle, I'am saying that Kart racing has some of the same problems as boat racing , they have too many classes an it takes all day and half the night to run a lot of the races The Kart shops have the power to control the rules so they make money. It has very little spectator appeal even though it is one of the toughest racing there is, very little protection for the driver think about going in the first turn 15th in a 30 Kart field . They have the same problem as boat racing people start fail and never come back..99 percent of them are not your friend. It is not this way in boat racing most everybody are your friend and will help you if needed. After the race we talk party and have fun . One thing is wrong is a lot of the boats are to small for there class a rule change in MOD back in the 70's to make the boats bigger failed because it made them to big. But like the Kart Shop only a few people make the rules in apba In about 78 i tried to get the short Tower approved for D MOD an E MOD (44) the vote was a tie so the rule stayed the same a lot of people did not want to give up there Bayer Tower even if the short Tower made the boats safer and better to drive later they passed this rule I have a lot more to say at some other time. Anybody know why when the 25ss Merc came out a few people were really fast an were hard to beat.

Aren't there still at least one very fast 25SS??????

Key word (s): Kart Shops...... How many boat shops sell race boats????

ADD:

There always has been tons of nice people in boat racing......Nice people don't necessarily make good leaders.

'

[G Stillwill]

The first bunch of 25SS motors had illegal ports from the factory which Mercury replaced so some may not have been sent back.

[Danny Pigott]

They got all the fast ones back but one . I know who had it but will not say, it may be the same one. Ron is talking about. I think Merc put them out there to make the 25ss as fast or faster than the 20H.

[BP125V]

Not wanting to start World War III here, but to me the difference between APBA and NBRA is "BIGGER THAN ****".

Hi Ron,

The point I'm trying to make is that a kneel down race boat in the NBRA is the same as a kneel down race boat in the APBA, ditto for the drivers. The difference, at least as it appears to me, is that the NBRA has some people (more people?) making a difference when it comes to promoting races and getting sponsorship - and on top of that they do a good job of promoting their organization and efforts here on HR.net.

The difference between the organizations is that the NBRA IS kneeldown racing, where obviously there are many more categories in the APBA and yet we act as though the APBA needs to cater only to J/Stock/Mod.....

[Ron Hill]

Ron I got off track a ittle, I'am saying that Kart racing has some of the same problems as boat racing , they have too many classes an it takes all day and half the night to run a lot of the races The Kart shops have the power to control the rules so they make money. It has very little spectator appeal even though it is one of the toughest racing there is, very little protection for the driver think about going in the first turn 15th in a 30 Kart field . They have the same problem as boat racing people start fail and never come back..99 percent of them are not your friend. It is not this way in boat racing most everybody are your friend and will help you if needed. After the race we talk party and have fun . One thing is wrong is alot of the boats are to small for there class a rule change in MOD back in the 70's to make the boats bigger failed because it made them to big. But like the Kart Shop only a few people make the rules in apba In about 78 i tried to get the short Tower approved for D MOD an E MOD (44) the vote was a tie so the rule stayed the same a lot of people did not want to give up there Bayer Tower even if the short Tower made the boats safer and better to drive later they passed this rule I have a lot more to say at some other time. Anybody know why when the 25ss Merc came out a few people were really fast an were hard to beat.

One thing that has always bothered me, is how many people start racing C Hydro (stock) and how many quit racing C Hydro. No one, but me, has ever asked why are these people starting to race and why are they quitting????

The answer is simple: Too hard to win. Too dangerous. Too expensive. No rewards!

Boat racing has friendship...Golf has Pro Am events. In San Diego, 1956, Elgin Gate brought the Mexico boat racers to a Pan Am race. ELGIN BOUGHT SOME NICE TROPHIES, but it was clear that the Mexican would take NO trophes home as their boats were "JUNK" compared to ours.

We had a "Quick" driver's meting and decide that we would "TEAM" with our Mexican compadres. So, we ran six America boats and six Mexican boats per class.

We had a great race. The announcer had never PRONOUNCED Spanish so he called "HAY SUS" Jesus, and Kristo as Christ...So, Jesus Christ was in second....

Anyway, my point is we do LITTLE to equalizes the new comer. The new comer is to sell old stuff to, and help pay for a races so we can get our "POINTS...

I have advocated Pro_Am Racing, but people say, "Oh the day it too long..." Really, combine three boat classes. We run a 300 mile Enduro every October...fast boats and slow boats. They learn to give each other room...

Can't run runabout and hydro together??? Why not.....? Can't run A hydros and C hydros at the same time, why not???

[G Stillwill]

Ron get in an A hydro sometime and run with a bunch of C hydros and the why will become apparent real quick. I have run many races in ASH and AXH with a quick green right after a full field of CSH ran and to say the least its really interesting

[Ron Hill]

Run 25 Laps

As I said in an earlier post, boat racers won't change their thinking.

We have about 4 -- 20 hydros and 3 or 4 C Hydros....Four boring heats...why not 20 laps, one heat.....OH, but you would get points and my gas tank it too small....

Did anyone look at the MOD-Stock Divisonals race schedule for OHIO.....? Racing all day Saturday and Sunday......About one race a year like this would be enough for me....

You have to have ten boats to run 20 heats....How about 20 heats with one boat....?

ADD:


I used to run my A_B Sid Craft in B, C and D Hydro. I won SCOA's High Point in all three classes, three years in a row...I also won COH high point, by stepping my "D" Down to "C" which was legal for a few years, til the Stockers won all the hnigh points...

Ski Racers got it right...They have 30-40 boat running at the same time, with 30-40 classes...Everybody wins....

[stu_racing]

I agree the SO and Mod should merge into one. This is pretty much a no brainer IMO.

What I also don't understand is why the Sutherland proposal and the Holt propoal shouldn't be resubmitted. Those ware a great ideas! In these proposals we could even satisfy more people than Howie's proposal (no angst against it though Howie). You could slowly combine some MOD with some SO through a common mindset of that what I have now will be pretty close on the course to one another even though there are different combinations.

I am all for total reconstruction but what Howie is proposing in even more radical than what was proposed in the past and those failed. Maybe we need to revisit the "old" ideas so that something will have enough support to gain some voters that voted against these ideas in the past.

Even though this idea has positive feedback on here those other proposals did too and still failed. What we can take away from this proposal is that some more people may be willing to a little less change under the circumstances of today's situation.

What we need to do is focus on a smaller class structure that also focuses on retention of most of our racers. Once something finally passes and the 2 categories merge then we can really get down to business.

We also need to address the insurance issue but a large number of racers enjoy the security of being with APBA and their insurance because of the security that it has provided the members over the years. This is not to say other options might not be better but we have also seen that a number of members are stuck in their ways.

Let me finish saying that I would support Howie's proposal. All I am saying is that we keep on coming up with new proposals each year and they get a bit more "radical" each time, to the the guys who have their classes and just want to preserve those classes. With the new situation and the circumstances getting more desperate let's readdress old ideas too. Maybe the timing wasn't right before but now is.

My 2 cents.

[Dave M]

Bill Pav

Hi Ron,

The point I'm trying to make is that a kneel down race boat in the NBRA is the same as a kneel down race boat in the APBA, ditto for the drivers. The difference, at least as it appears to me, is that the NBRA has some people (more people?) making a difference when it comes to promoting races and getting sponsorship - and on top of that they do a good job of promoting their organization and efforts here on HR.net.

The difference between the organizations is that the NBRA IS kneeldown racing, where obviously there are many more categories in the APBA and yet we act as though the APBA needs to cater only to J/Stock/Mod.....

Bill,

The difference is a lot more than that in reality. On paper it may seem like that. But until you experience what I am referring to, your assumptions could be wrong. The similarity is the fact we run the same brand boats and engines and propellers.

I look forward to the day we can all meet on common ground and race nearly every weekend an not spend a mortgage payment to race one weekend.

[ram95]

The wheels are a turning

I joined NBRA this spring about the time I sent off my $200 bucks to APBA. I wanted a first hand look at their rulebook and newspaper. It's been worth the price. Check out this site out: http://www.racenbra.net/

A Racing Membership in NBRA is eighty ($80) bucks; $35 for Novices!! Single event membership is $45 and can be credited. You get a RULE book you can throw in your truck along with a newspaper which you can give to your neighbors kid to look at.

It gets better.. sanction fee for a regular race is $100 bucks. And, the cost of insuring the event appears to be around 800 bucks less with as good or better coverage.

Be sure to check out the NBRA site. AND go straight to "CLASS BREAKDOWN". You'll see a class structure which is very much like the one Howie Nichols described in the first part of this thread. No need to re-invent the wheel. Wouldn't it be something if the entire East Coast went NBRA this December!! Put that extra $100 bucks in your kids Xmas stocking.

Alex

[pearson95m]

I joined NBRA this spring about the time I sent off my $200 bucks to APBA. I wanted a first hand look at their rulebook and newspaper. It's been worth the price. Check out this site out: http://www.racenbra.net/

A Racing Membership in NBRA is eighty ($80) bucks; $35 for Novices!! Single event membership is $45 and can be credited. You get a RULE book you can throw in your truck along with a newspaper which you can give to your neighbors kid to look at.

It gets better.. sanction fee for a regular race is $100 bucks. And, the cost of insuring the event appears to be around 800 bucks less with as good or better coverage.

Be sure to check out the NBRA site. AND go straight to "CLASS BREAKDOWN". You'll see a class structure which is very much like the one Howie Nichols described in the first part of this thread. No need to re-invent the wheel. Wouldn't it be something if the entire East Coast went NBRA this December!! Put that extra $100 bucks in your kids Xmas stocking.

Alex

Won’t lie… looks really tempting. I like the simplicity. There are 2 big reasons why I haven’t switched. One is location. I can’t drive to Oklahoma for race weekends. The second is a little more sentimental. I’ve grown up with the folks in APBA. These guys and girls are like extended family. It’s hard to leave that. Race weekends are not just about racing, it’s also about the people. Just sayin…

[Hunter]

...I have never been interested in the politics of APBA until recently. Our club has over $5000 in the bank ,yet this is not enough to cover the costs of our race eventhough we have the advantage of close proximity to Canadian drivers who turn out in numbers. The cost situation will soon be the death knell of events like ours and,perhaps , our club.

I am mystified why the combination concept is not formalized. Every event I have attended for the last several seasons has been stock and mod. It is an evolution born of neccessity. It is past time for the body politic to catch up.

Hunter III