Combined Class & Category Proposal

[Howie Nichols]

It's back....

I have seen alot of discussion again over the past few weeks on, to many classes, categories should be combined, etc....

Here is a proposal that I have come up with the combine the Stock & Mod categories into one happy family.

Some keys things to note;

1. Please read the entire document, wait, reread it, think about it, then post your comments.
2. No motor has been eliminated (except the 45ss), just redefined.
3. This reduces the class count from 25 down to 14 (plus the 4 J classes)
4. There is room for improvement
5. This is open to discussion
6. This mind set is needed to move forward
7. The new 302H class is not included today but could be discussed.
8. One commission can be made with a larger panel of commissioners and sub committees set up to assist in the transition.
9. 1 set of Racing rules to remember!
10. This is suppose to be fun, it hasn't been for the officials who work week in and week out......

So here it is as a Word document.

I will be away from the computer this weekend, can't wait to see the responses.

[blueskyracer]

so you got rid of DSH and DR?? Or did I miss them?

[Howie Nichols]

so you got rid of DSH and DR?? Or did I miss them?

NO.

DSR and 750R as we know it are now combined and run as 1 class, same in the Hydro.

So I didn't get rid of it, just combined it into 1.

[Matt Dagostino]

Survival

I have preached a similar format for years............i would actually go a step further and include PRO classes in this and create one kneel down division and re-negeotiate with APBA. We(APBA Member Outboard Clubs) can not survive $3500 weekend sanction and insurance FEES to our mothor organization for much longer as seperate divisions.

Under this format most of us take a 'haircut' but we all grow stronger as an organization in the end. I would be losing my 20ssh class as the Yamato 80 in it's stock form can not compete at the Nationals in Howie's class combo structure. And yes Ms Bluesky racer DSH and DSR are effectively eliminated since the STOCK 44xs or Tahatsu will not be competitive with a Modified old Merc 44. Guess that is just the way it would be.

I would give up my Yamato 80 and change classes under this format if it means kneel down racing in APBA could survive and grow strong by having one politically strong division. The next step would be to re-structure APBA to serve the kneel down class division by ANY MEANS NECESSARY!!!

I fear most people will not support this since they are selfish and would rather go to weak MOD, Stock or PRO individual events and die a slow death.

Heck, a current example is the current upcoming Stock Outboard Nationals...........the SORC a couple years back opted out of a combined MOD, Stock, J Class Nationals at the proven Whitney Point site in NY to go to a stand alone Stock-J Class only event upcoming at Grass Lake. This left our Mod brothers and sisters hanging out and killed the many members that cross over since few of us can afford to attend two seperate Nationals!. This is and example of how selfish many current Commission members are and why this proposal will be a fight.

When we are totally down and out and are left with no options except going to antique race meets will this type of proposal be taken seriously.

The funny part here is when we all get together at a combined event we all get along and love each other. It is when we dry off and get in meeting rooms that we all puff out our chests and think we are all powerful and can stand alone in seperate divisions..........that mindset has to stop and MOD, STOCk and PRO (and J Class) all get together and become ONE kneel-down Division.

I would vote Howie be the Chairman and operate the new Division as a dictatorship and not a 20 plus person commission. The reason the J Class division has grown and is the best division in APBA is because Steve Hearn and Ernie Dawe were allowed to run it like NASCAR operates. A Dictatorship!!

Nuf said!!

Happy 4th of July All......

[DUNN RACING 10-Z]

I'M in total agreement with Howie and Matt. If this propasal or something similar doesn't happen soon I will digitally transform myself over to NBRA. Just recieved my July Propeller and I must say what a pile of S---. Something has got to be done!

Steve 10-Z

[doc 35-0]

The stock and mods are carrying the burden for the larger boats...Look at NBRA it is standing alone and paying prize money, lower entry fees...Apba members need to renegoiate the insurance deal and let high risk pay the higher fee...or go NBRA

[BP125V]

a lot to digest

Hi Howie,

I have been in support of combining Stock and Mod for a while now.

I personally do not have a plan in mind for how to combine classes but what I would propose is to combine the MORC and SORC first and then let the new combined commission/dictator sort out the direction of the sport and the class structure. I think trying to start with the class combinations will make getting people on board way too difficult and will just create a never ending circle of arguments and the combination will never get off the ground. Start with Stock and Mod first, leave J and certainly PRO out of it as it will be complicated enough as it is. PRO is different enough that I think it probably should not be combined, J should though eventually but since it is doing ok for now leave it out of the mix until the dust settles.

There is a lot to digest with your proposal and there are some complications that are not so obvious to the casual observer - ie the SW and what to do with it until Runne gets it running consistently.

Personally I do not see class combinations/eliminations saving us costs, at least based on the classes that we run in IL/WI. What I see as a higher priority is to maintain the level of insurance coverage that APBA offers right now, but obviously at a reduced rate. Unfortunately most likely easier said than done.

Also - I could not agree more with Matt that separate Stock and Mod Nat's are a MAJOR mistake. That should never happen again, it just can't.

[BP125V]

Howie

I PM'd you.

[doc 35-0]

NBRA usually run just 10 classes, Novice(restricted Yamato motor any boat),AH(20 hydro),C stock Hydro, C mod hydro, 25 Mod Hydro(any 25cc) or lower engine, D runabout and hydro(40cc and tohatsu, 44xs), E runabout and hydro, Super E runabout and hydro 49cc.
We would run Cmod runabout but the wieght seems to discourge the average size guy. See rules for better decription.

[dholt]

Looks familiar

Funny, I wrote up a proposal for this same idea 3-4 years ago. It didn't get much love then.

It should have...and it should get even more attention today.

Only suggestion I would make is leaving the current Hot Rod/Sidewinder classes in their stock form. Much cheaper to run those engines as stock...and getting the Sidewinders to run as currently produced is challenging enough without throwing pipes on them and then start carving up the internal workings of the engine to compete with the modified Hot Rods.

A new 3 blade is about $350. Four blades...$450.

I said it years ago and say it again. When you are under attack, circle the wagons and build on your strengths. In stock, that's A, B, and C classes. In Mod, it's B, C and D.

You could cut FER quite honestly. How many true FE runabouts are out there? Is a DMR that much of a "slow" ride that someone has to fire up an FER?

Give 'em hell, Howie. As BP said, first step is to combine the category commissions...then work on the classes.


Why have 25 classes with 4-5 boats at a race? How about 13 classes with 8-10? Isn't that more compelling?

And what good is first rate insurance if we can't afford to put on a race because the rates are KILLING local clubs!

D.

[AZ Outlaw]

I agree start with the commissions first.

Note:
Sutherlands proposal of combining STOCK classes went to membership vote 2 years ago, and was defeated.

The Mod Commission decided to move the Mod Winternationals from a combined event on the west coast 2 years ago, so its not just the Stock Commission that separates combined category races. Regardless of reasons, both Commissions need to work together on this issue IMO.

The Community of Grass Lakes, will currently NOT allow open pipe boats on their Lake, they are however, very enthused and supportive of kneel down racing, and are working with MHRA to make another memorable Stock Nationals event.

[CSR4C]

What is a Formula XS motor in DMH ?

[Danny Pigott]

How it isThis

This is how it is if SO could make it on there own as it did in the past ,remember when all races were SO/ Pro . no Mod were included in the race , Mod had to stand alone to have a race, SO did not want them. We had 7 25 Mod Hydros in SC . I called the guy that was putting on a race in Fla. and ask him to put 25 Mod on with the the so/pro race. He told me why don't you get a good SO motor an come race with us. This is how most SO people thought about MOD. And it is still the same to day other than they need the money that Mod adds to the race .Oh one last thing if it does not have pipes it is not MOD All Mod Classes had pipes in the past , Go read the NOA rule book where Apba Mod came from in 72. Noise is what brings people to a race .

[Affholter66]

As was my point 2yrs ago..getting rid of a restricted yamato 102/302 in runabout does nothing but eliminate (I will stick with MHRA races) 7-9 mores entries (or so). Someone please explain why/How this is a good thing? I do admit that this is what I run..1 Boat 1 Motor 2 props 1 restrictor plate. Which equals 4 entry fees per weekend. New Racer get same benefit (for minimal investment.), club gets entry $$..AM I MISSING SOMETHING??????

[Affholter66]

. Noise is what brings people to a race .[/QUOTE]

Or keeps ya from firing Motors till noon...