Combined Class & Category Proposal

[Racerkyle20]

Also - I could not agree more with Matt that separate Stock and Mod Nat's are a MAJOR mistake. That should never happen again, it just can't.

This is why i pushed for the 2014 Moses Lake Nationals to be combined.

I am personally for this proposal presented by Howie. I was also for the stock combination proposal by Sutherland 2 years ago.

On the bright side region 10's last race had elimination heats in 3 classes! All stock classes, but still! I know a lot of you guys back east and in the midwest only see us once a year, but Region 10 outboard racing is as strong as it has been in years! With that said our MOD and PRO classes are very weak. 500ccmh, 350ccH, are the strongest non-stock classes we have. And they bring only tops 5-6 a weekend....J's are hit and miss (AX looking good though).

If you havn't lately, go check the APBA high points. All updated thru the last weekend of june's racing. The total number of people racing this year is not looking great...

[Howie Nichols]

Ok a short response before I hit the highway and travel (over 1500 miles) togo to a race, help with delivery of a boat (one that has been awaiting a ride home and just needed help to get there, deliver a rescue boat, and pickup someone elses kid to take them to another event...

This proposal is just a start. It was done so no motor, person, or class is eliminated. Yes tyou may have to make some changes but that happens. I would hope this is part of a master plan, 1 step at a time, and yes insurance needs to be looked at hard.

I am not asking to become the chair for this, if it is what the members want then I would. Tom & Jeff along with former chairs do a great job and. I appreciate all of them.

I am excited to see the positive attitudes towards this and look forward to reading more nwxt week when I get home!

[reed28n]

Good luck with change - we need it

I am sure you heard my story before. But, we had a path set to "modify" the Stock porgram. It was voted on and passed. It needed a little tweaking yes, but it had the components required to move us in the right direction. it was an incremental step to what Dean and Howie have proposed.

That program was completely abandoned. We stepped backwards. Now we are looking at proposals that are way more radical.

And for the record, no motors were proposed to be elimnated. Everything had a place to race. All racers could have held on to their eqipment.

We need to make some difficult decisions and some may be very upset. We participate in an emotional sport passed down from genration to generation. We can all agree our sport will look very different in 5 years. how do you want it to look?

[John Schubert]

Propeller

I'M in total agreement with Howie and Matt. If this propasal or something similar doesn't happen soon I will digitally transform myself over to NBRA. Just recieved my July Propeller and I must say what a pile of S---. Something has got to be done!

Steve 10-Z

Ditto Steve re the propeller. I stopped reading it, it's full of nonsense.

[Danny Pigott]

. Noise is what brings people to a race .

Or keeps ya from firing Motors till noon...[/QUOTE]

If we didn't have so many classes we would not have to start till noon, we could sleep late and a lot of us would not have a hang over lol.

[bill boyes]

Ditto Steve re the propeller. I stopped reading it, it's full of nonsense.

the Propeller is another step backwards. People have lost interest in it as I have. Tried to print the July issue. About used up all the color cartridge. Somethings got to be done.
I like Howies plan.
As a Referee and wife Chief Scorer too many 3 boat classes. Some will not even run 3 laps.

[DiGia54D]

As for Propeller. Other then Dewald, the other whopping 5 people that do any advertising in it is for kneel down racing. How come Inboard/unlimited/liter Suppliers dont advertise in it? Advertising is what pays for it to get printed. South Shore Outboards monthly news letter has more info in it.

[Dave M]

A Step

While you do not intend to eliminate classes, your proposal does just that to some. Instead of looking at Stock/Mod equivalent classes (same letter/CC designation) look at the thought of combining them from a speed and torque factor. If you align them doing this, you won't be eliminating any engine or current class as it is run. Also, to Dana's point, leave the strong classes alone. Strong meaning they can field a full field at local races.

I think this is a huge step that is needed, and is long, long overdue. I was in favor of Dana's proposal last time too. It was not perfect, but it was a change in the right direction.

Here is an important item that I feel can make or break the new system. Only allow one commissioner per state. Also NO proxies at the annual meeting. This is important if you want it to succeed.

[BP125V]

be careful of what you wish for

Remember, not everyone wants to race against full fields all of the time. There has to be room in the sport for "sportsman" type classes for those who are not hard core racers.

Howie - I suggest removing the class combo list from the table and get SO and MOD to combine first as one category so we can all race under one set of rules and one commission/dictator. This will eliminate a lot of duplication of effort.

[Danny Pigott]

I do agree with Howie's plan, we all know it will be changed some but can work. We do need a place for the Toc. to run if Bass is still going to built it. How many Sidewinder's are out there running, are they selling any. Why not let the 30H back in CSH i know there are still a lot of them out there some people may come back racing. Do away with the CC stuff and back to A,b,C,D. A lot of people won't like this but we don't need 4 J classes AXS and J should be comb. I know the kid's need to run as much as possible but we have 8 heats of 40 mph or so boats running that takes a lot of time, My son ran J too at one time. I think they should run on a shorter track you could put another set of bouys inside one turn and the race would go faster. At one time they would shoot the one min. gun as soon as all boats were on the course this saves a lot of time and keeps the water from getting so rough , i don't see this anymore. I know it can't be done at a Nat's but why not local races. I think i have seen about everything that can be done in boat racing I was lucky to have run every Div. of outboard racing from FE to Unl. Tunnel boats in OPC A MOD to FE in MOD. A,B,C pro. B and D stock. I have seen Local OPC races die out when we had them almost every weekend in GA, SC NC now there are none I saw PRO in Fla go from full fields in A,B,and C Hydro to zero today only the USTS is left. So what happend I know what happened to OPC not sure about PRO except people quit and no one new came in. SO and MOD can beat this if they will work at it

[Dave M]

Mis-Informed

. Noise is what brings people to a race .

Or keeps ya from firing Motors till noon...[/QUOTE]

Mike,

You could not be further from the truth. I can prove it. I have sat around all day at an MHRA race in Constantine. I ran 850CCH, or what we all call FEH. At any rate, on Sunday, yes Sunday, I decided to work the turn boat during the EH class. (750CCMH) there was a good field of boats that year; I think full or darn close to it. I was in the first turn boat. All those darn noisy Mercs came screaming down annoying the hell out of the stockers on the beach waiting to race. It was music to my ears. I looked up at the Highway that runs past the pits, and no less than ten cars had pulled off the road to watch as all the boats lit them up for the run to the clock. They were lined up all the way across the start chute. I never saw any cars pull off during CSH.

My point is this, while your pre-conceived notion instilled by years of a fierce inner battles between stock & mod and who owns who, it is common to hear your analogy at any APBA race one could attend. This untruth is a long way from the reality of it. Did you ever stop to consider the reason some places are annoyed is because the race there two or three times a year, for the last 50 years ? It is time to get some new places to race and make some noise in doing so.

[pearson95m]

I believe the difficulty with combining classes is that we keep trying to conform the class structure around the “current” equipment that we have. I believe this is a backwards way of thinking. I believe we need to construct a class structure first, and then place our current classes within that structure and allow the equipment to modify and adjust to it. The elected group should construct the classes with an unbiased view. What I mean is that it needs to be constructed with minimal thought as to “how is my class going work in this structure?” – That would be addressed in step 2. The structure should be based on some basic values such as: cost, flexibility, diversity

Below is a very basic example:

Class 1R – Small boat (10ft) – small power source (15ci) – min weight (300) – Junior class
Class 2R – Small boat (10ft) – Small power source (15ci) – min weight (350)
Class 3R – Small boat (10ft) – Large power source (30ci) – min weight (400)
Class 4R – Large boat (12ft) – Small power source (30ci) – min weight (475)
Class 5R – Large boat (12ft) – Large power source (40ci) – min weight (525)

Class 1H – Small boat (10ft) – small power source (15ci)
Class 2H – Small boat (10ft) – Small power source (15ci)
Class 3H – Small boat (10ft) – Large power source (30ci)
Class 4H – Large boat (12ft) – Small power source (30ci)
Class 5H – Large boat (12ft) – Large power source (40ci)

This would only be the start. The committee would set up the overall weights (discussion in itself); set up the overall boat dimensions (discussion in itself); Set up the motor sizes (discussion in itself); Set up all the basic class rules. Once the overall class structure is set, THEN decide how to infuse our current classes into these parameters. We the drivers will then adapt and adjust accordingly. I think setting up the overall class structure first would help secure our future, simplify our sport and unify our talents.

This should be the first step in my opinion. I like what Howie has proposed, however I believe this to be step 2 in the process.

My 2 cents..
Josh

[Hutch06]

Noise

Roger is entirely correct on his light-hearted "racing at noon" comment. I do NOT have any problem with fast, loud boats, but the problem is that I am in the minority of the population of people who live on or by a lake. It is hard enough finding populated bodies of water to be allowed to race on (especially during prime time of the year, i.e. June-August), but the amount of noise from a 750MH makes it even harder. This has kept MHRA out of many potential new race sites, with just stock motors!

I'm not knocking on Mod/Open pipe racing, just stating a fact. It's fine for us to race in bodies of water that are unhabitated, but odds are that most of these bodies of water are off the beaten path (Dayton is an exception) and is hard to attract "fans" to the racecourse. It is sites such as Akron, Loch Haven, Burlington, Grass Lake, etc. that will offer exposure to our sport.

[Affholter66]

Or keeps ya from firing Motors till noon...

Mike,

You could not be further from the truth. I can prove it. I have sat around all day at an MHRA race in Constantine. I ran 850CCH, or what we all call FEH. At any rate, on Sunday, yes Sunday, I decided to work the turn boat during the EH class. (750CCMH) there was a good field of boats that year; I think full or darn close to it. I was in the first turn boat. All those darn noisy Mercs came screaming down annoying the hell out of the stockers on the beach waiting to race. It was music to my ears. I looked up at the Highway that runs past the pits, and no less than ten cars had pulled off the road to watch as all the boats lit them up for the run to the clock. They were lined up all the way across the start chute. I never saw any cars pull off during CSH.

My point is this, while your pre-conceived notion instilled by years of a fierce inner battles between stock & mod and who owns who, it is common to hear your analogy at any APBA race one could attend. This untruth is a long way from the reality of it. Did you ever stop to consider the reason some places are annoyed is because the race there two or three times a year, for the last 50 years ? It is time to get some new places to race and make some noise in doing so.[/QUOTE]

This is Roger..NOT Mike...no idea what preconceived notions you speak of..Mike, William and daughter Marissa attended a MOD only race in Beaverton Mi last weekend..had they not Im pretty sure there would have been ZERO runabouts classes with enough boats (yeah like THREE) ..The "or keep motors from firing until noon" was meant to be a mood lightener..guess the "smiley face" was missed...

I have ONE point and ONLY one point..Howie's plan dumps the restricted Yamato in 25SSR..so you have a class that is usually 3rd or 4th in entries (not just runabout but hydro too) at MHRA races anyway. all for the price of a restrictor plate and maybe a prop. What is the reasoning behind this if we are trying to grow our sport? Its a 2'fer..1 Boat 1 Motor 2 classes..if I was a new driver I think thats what would hook me..minimal investment..maximum time on water. Cost me $575.00 (total out of pocket) to run CSR/25SSR at Constantine..It would have cost me $515.00 to run one or the other only..hmmm

I woulda liked to have seen that "Full Field" of 750's Dave..this year we had 3 show up for their "Divisional" or whatever it was...I think there were 4 MOD classes on the sanction..biggest turnout 4 boats. I raced w/AOF for several years and saw the MOD/Stock thing work and have no reason to think it wouldn't now..lets just have some common sense and see how far that takes Us..

ROGER Affholter

[bill boyes]

. Noise is what brings people to a race .

Or keeps ya from firing Motors till noon...[/QUOTE] You got to be kidding? Noise gets us kicked out of good race sites also.