Composite Questions

[matthias]

I have decided to share my knowledge of building composite race boats. I am doing this so everyone can understand the costs and efforts involved in making or repairing composite boats. If anyone has questions on the techniques or materials I use, please use this thread to ask. I dont want to write a book, there are plenty out there on the subject but I will do my best to describe what has worked for me. I would also like other builders to post their tips.

Matt Arlt
Arltralite Hydroplanes & Runabouts

[matthias]

panels

these are the materials I use in making the panels

6 oz carbon fiber
12 oz bi-axial glass
ATC core-cell foam 1/8" to 5/8" 3 to 8lbs density
aeropoxy

all panels I make are vacuum bagged on a melamine table.

there are books available on vacuum bagging so I dont want to explain it.

I will suggest alternative materials for vacuum bagging if anyone is interested

recipes

decks and frames
6 oz carbon
foam (3 or 5lbs density)
6 oz carbon

coamings, bottoms, sponsons, chines
6 oz carbon
12 oz bi-axial glass
foam (5-8lbs density)
12 oz bi-axial glass
6 oz carbon

[win-or-flip]

Thanks Matt

Ive always wondered. Seems like wood is a lot easier. I remember the boat you built for my dad. It was crazy light.

[Hunter]

wood is easier...

...of course wood is easier. My FEH is currently in Matt's shop for some beautifications. The boat was put together for the 2004 season. There is not a structural crack in it inspite of being up and over twice. It has not absorbed an ounce of water or fuel stains. It will be demonstrating continued competitiveness in 2012. Initial costs don't look so bad when you consider you get lighter,stronger and more durable than wood with little,or no maintenance. I am frequently underfoot in his shop. Few people realize what a consumate craftsman this guy is. I hope we'll see a photo soon of our two FEH boats, a new 125 runabout,and a 5 liter inboard hydro all lined up in his shop !
Hunter III

[mercguy]

these are the materials I use in making the panels

6 oz carbon fiber
12 oz bi-axial glass
ATC core-cell foam 1/8" to 5/8" 3 to 8lbs density
aeropoxy

all panels I make are vacuum bagged on a melamine table.

there are books available on vacuum bagging so I dont want to explain it.

I will suggest alternative materials for vacuum bagging if anyone is interested

recipes

decks and frames
6 oz carbon
foam (3 or 5lbs density)
6 oz carbon

coamings, bottoms, sponsons, chines
6 oz carbon
12 oz bi-axial glass
foam (5-8lbs density)
12 oz bi-axial glass
6 oz carbon

thanks for the info Matt!! I wondered what materials were used in the Arltralite I have..............you do a GREAT job................wish I lived closer to you, to see how it is all done......

[Dave M]

Bagging Supplies

If you are looking for a cheaper alternative for bagging supplies, visit your local fabric store, or Wal-Mart.

100% Nylon or Polyester works as a peel ply. A lot cheaper by the yard at WalMart than a composites store. Only tweak is to turn the pump off when the Epoxy kicks. The peel ply will come off much easier if you don't leave it on all night.

For Breather material - Buy fleece at Walmart. It is under $5.00 a yard. It abosrbs nicely and is inexpensive compared to a specialty stores prices on breather material.

For bag - I use Visqueen. (sp?). From Lowes it is $10.00 for a roll. I get about three pieces from the roll on my 4' x 12' table.

For Carbon, the 5.9oz is standard in the twill weave. Some call it 6oz. It is the most common material used.

Just a couple tips if you run low on supplies and need it fast, Wallyworld carries them in their fabrics section. And guess what, you don't lose your man card by visiting the sewing section, specifically for boat building supplies.

[modhydro]

Cost effective materials

Dave,

I'm glad to see someone else using the Non-Official supplies. I know I've posted the same stuff here in the past. Even around Indy where there are several shops dealing with "high-end" stuff, they use the same cost-effective matereials unless it goes to a high temp cure in the autoclave.

Another one to add to the list is simple clay rope calk used for weather stripping to seal your vacuum bag. You can find that at any home improvement store (at least in the midwest). We have found it to stick better than the expensive composite booger tape to many molds coated with good release compounds. It is a fraction of the cost.

The only thing that surprised me from your post was that you had a man card! Where did you find that thing????

We hope to see you guys at some IOA races again this year. Be sure to bring the Gresleys as well.

Talk to you later.

Steve

[modhydro]

Even cheaper supplies

I forgot to mention in the previous post that most fabric stores have a sale section in the back with old prints or slightly damaged fabric. It is still great for what we need it for and can save you even more money.

Don't even bother trying to explain to the cashier why a stain or snag on the cloth won't ruin your project. Just politely ask them to "ring it up."

Steve

[bill boyes]

these are the materials I use in making the panels

6 oz carbon fiber
12 oz bi-axial glass
ATC core-cell foam 1/8" to 5/8" 3 to 8lbs density
aeropoxy

all panels I make are vacuum bagged on a melamine table.

there are books available on vacuum bagging so I dont want to explain it.

I will suggest alternative materials for vacuum bagging if anyone is interested

recipes

decks and frames
6 oz carbon
foam (3 or 5lbs density)
6 oz carbon

coamings, bottoms, sponsons, chines
6 oz carbon
12 oz bi-axial glass
foam (5-8lbs density)
12 oz bi-axial glass
6 oz carbon

What method do you use for shear and chines? Wood?
How do you attach the ribs to the combing. Epoxy cement of some sort?

[win-or-flip]

How about some video footage?

I dont know how busy you are Matt, but something that could be educational and promote your services is a time lapse video. You could edit out any trade secrets. It would be fun to watch and answer a lot of questions... maybe generate more Just a thought, take it or leave it

[matthias]

glue cone

I use glue cones for several tasks.
coating panel edges
filleting

here is how I make them

start with a diamond shaped piece of 6mil. plastic, 12"x12" is a good size. alternatively you could use a square piece and turn it 45degrees

fold one side over to form a point at one end and the edge of the other end, just past center

repeat withe the opposite edge

tape the seam. I use sheathing tape but have also used masking or duct tape

turn the cone over and cut the tape at an angle at the very tip of the plastic

fold the small piece of tape over to stick to the plastic

continued in next post

[matthias]

fold the large piece over. it wrap around the cone once.

put the cone in a cup and fill with thickened glue

cut the tip to the desired size. I make about a 3/16" opening.

I will show uses later

[matthias]

thanks for the info Matt!! I wondered what materials were used in the Arltralite I have..............you do a GREAT job................wish I lived closer to you, to see how it is all done......

I will try to find some old pics of how I built the molded boats

I never made two boats the same. I always tried to improve the process.

[matthias]

Dave,

I'm glad to see someone else using the Non-Official supplies. I know I've posted the same stuff here in the past. Even around Indy where there are several shops dealing with "high-end" stuff, they use the same cost-effective matereials unless it goes to a high temp cure in the autoclave.

Another one to add to the list is simple clay rope calk used for weather stripping to seal your vacuum bag. You can find that at any home improvement store (at least in the midwest). We have found it to stick better than the expensive composite booger tape to many molds coated with good release compounds. It is a fraction of the cost.

The only thing that surprised me from your post was that you had a man card! Where did you find that thing????

We hope to see you guys at some IOA races again this year. Be sure to bring the Gresleys as well.

Talk to you later.

Steve

My face gets bright red when I go in the fabric store looking for supplies

I use tremco 440 window glazing tape 1/8"x1/2" for bagging

[sponsonhead]

I will try to find some old pics of how I built the molded boats

I'd love to see how you framed them up, and of course how you ultimately fit Part A onto Part B. We're at that step now

Thanks for your posts, Matt, and others. Very informative and helpful!

R-19