SO Class Reduction Proposal

[reed28n]

2nd Tier

Steve, there was absolutely nothing preventing you from racing your yamato 80 at the Top-O-Michigan. You openly admit you do not expect to win. Why do you need national points.

You are confusing sanctioning a national class structure with an evil plot to exclude racers.

The very same thing you are championing can occur by narrowing the motors allowed for a national platform. A new driver can be coached by current racers to select the racing path.

This is racing. I think that if you surveyed racing J families that they would like the chance to win. Maybe not right away but they are looking down the road to win. Why put that family is a 60 J so little Johny can't even race around other boats except for milling.

If a motor is not used to race nationally then it should be removed from Stock Outboard and should be gifted to the Mod category.

[BP125V]

look a little closer

Reed,

what club put on the driving school?

Bill

PS - very well put Steve Roskowski

[Shep]

Steve, there was absolutely nothing preventing you from racing your yamato 80 at the Top-O-Michigan. You openly admit you do not expect to win. Why do you need national points.

You are confusing sanctioning a national class structure with an evil plot to exclude racers.

The very same thing you are championing can occur by narrowing the motors allowed for a national platform. A new driver can be coached by current racers to select the racing path.

This is racing. I think that if you surveyed racing J families that they would like the chance to win. Maybe not right away but they are looking down the road to win. Why put that family is a 60 J so little Johny can't even race around other boats except for milling.

If a motor is not used to race nationally then it should be removed from Stock Outboard and should be gifted to the Mod category.

I agree with fixing class structure.
Why would you ever want to eliminate a motor from national competition? They will go away on their own own and if they don't who cares. By eliminating motors from national classes You are giving people a reason to quit not a reason to stay.

I've seen that most of these plans give every thing a place to race with minimal effort.

Why put some one in a 60j ? It's a great training tool. Not all 9 year olds are ready to race. We've seen this work first hand in region 7 and now the kid is a good racer.

[14-H]

******.

If a motor is not used to race nationally then it should be removed from Stock Outboard and should be gifted to the Mod category.

I will NEVER agree with this. That is the single major difference between the 2010 SORC and the 2008-2009 SORC.

Those engines have a place in SO but they should not be the ones that can be pulled from the basement once a year to win the nationals.

[csh2z]

I would prefer it be put in Stock Classic and run with 25SSR

[Dave M]

Good Equipment Vs Poor

Steve,

While I agree to you for the most part I don't agree that we should channel a newbie to old non competitive equipment. This holds true in Mod and Stock. While we all know a newbie is not going to be a top finisher right out of the box, the potential needs to be there. I don't think we need to tell a newbie, hey buy this $500 boat and $1000 engine and you can race without first telling them this is a back runner and will never win without a lot of D/Q's of current rigs. What should occur is a conversation indicating this rig here is top notch and can win any given day. Buy this, we can set it up to be a good safe ride until you feel you are ready to crash. Lets face it, if you are competing to win you will crash once in a while. We don't have to word it this way, but you see the point.

I simply don't think having a newbie buy a cheap rig and run back of the pack is the answer to growth. While there are some racers who are perfectly comfortable doing this year in and year out, that is an exception, not the rule.

I have a great example. A real good friend of mine got into Pro racing a few years ago. Had old Yamato stuff that most likley would not win. He tried to purcahse a new engine and did, but it cost a bunch to do. It hit the budget. Well this guy found Mod, found real decent equipment for not a lot of cash. Now he is competing in Mod in a big class and is winning. His spirit is on high, and he looks forward to kicking a$$ next season. It gives him motivation to continue. Without this motivation, what is there ? What really brings people to the race ? Racing. If it is not we could be doing this a whole lot cheaper down on the local river...........

I am against eliminating engines from any class, stock or mod. Let them leave the natural way. But is also bugs me when an engine can run in 3 or 4 classes with a different restrictor plate. I don't have the answer to this.

[ram95]

Too many "Categories", too many "Classes" - too many 3 boat parades (or a wasted $600 trip when one breaks). Makes for a long day Sat & Sun trying to run them. Take a close look at the NBRA rulebook "Classes, engines, & weights". I've got a nice new one, thanks to Art Kampen. Food for thought. TIME (to re-group)!!

Also, let's not eliminate any rigs currently legal and don't shovel em off into some 'vintage' grouping. Let em run, and let the determined soul running earn points. Heck, they might even add to the entry fee at the nationals. What is wrong with that? As for someone digging some super-bad motor out of some basement closet.... c'mon... it'll probably fling a rod!!!

And while we're at it. let's put the Mark 30H back into C Stock. I've got one I want to run on a Reese D utility just for the buzz. I might even take it up to Top O cause its good on gas.

Alex

[jsilvestri]

I wasn't going to get involved in this but I can't stand to read anymore of this! First and Foremost, you can not make everyone happy no matter what decision is made or if a decision is ever made. If you have a plan and you would like to see it put in place then do what is necessary and make it happen or stand down!

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the mod catagory and the great job they have done combininb like engines? 250cc is a good example, you can race either the Hot Rod, 20-H Merc or a stock 22cu.in. OMC. The engine of choice is the Hot Rod because it is faster but anyone who chooses to run the class with one of the other engines can do so with some success if their equipment is top notch. I race the class from time to time with a 20-H Merc and have had some success and a lot of fun, but I understand that the engine of choice is the Hot Rod. If I wanted to race the class all of the time and strive for a national title then I would purchase a Hot Rod. But, since I race the class for fun and to give the Hot Rod guys fits from time to time I'm ok utilizing the Merc.

I'd like to see stock outboard go in the same direction as the mod catagory in terms of combining engines. All new available motors in all classes should be the motor of choice. If that means slowing down the existing motor then so be it. If you own older equipment you still have a place to race and you can have some success if your equipment is top notch. If not, make it top notch or buy the new available equipment. Either way, you have a place to race. I've been racing CSH with a 302 for 9 years and the reason why I chose the 302 from the beginning when it was not the engine of choice, was because it was NEW AVAILABLE equipment. Now, over time, there has finally been parity reached in the class and you can see more and more 302's racing in the class, which is how it should be.

Let's not forget, as an organization, that we need to support the current engine suppliers who are offering NEW AVAILABLE equipment because without them there WILL BE NO FUTURE no matter what is combined!

[modhydro]

2nd tier recap

Dave,

You missed my point entirely. Never did I say that we should steer a new person to old equipment as a first option. What I did want to point out is that it is a way to get someone that isn't sure about what we do participating at a reduced cost and get them hooked on it. The last paragraph talks about someone with the funds and desire to go all out. In a perfect world that would be the only way to go, but we all know that this is less than perfect so how about leaving as many options open and lessening barriers to entry. So long as you don't wind up with current racers selling off stuff dishonestly, I don't see a downside. As far as some posts saying let them run for local points only, why wouldn't we do all we can to include them nationally? Anyone would have to admit that being part of a group is nice. To then be told that all of your work and effort, even if it is on older stuff, doesn't count, how is that helping to build inclusion and friendships that will endure and help a person stick with it and move into the current stuff that we would all like to see them in? I see a great way to foster new membership to people with more limited funds and interest that could possibly be one of the greatest investments in the hobby. I guess if these ideas won't fly, they will all just be shipped over to us in MOD. It seems like an underlying feeling in several of these posts is, if it isn't good enough for stock, send them to MOD. I can't speak for all of us, but I for one will be happy to welcome all to the dumpster of kneeldown racing!

Steve

[blueskyracer]

Very well said Steve, I thought the idea of this thread was to come up with possible solution to the Problems with Stock Racing but sounds like the real "cure all" is send them to Mod.

Come to Mod and we will take them all with open arms. We made the move last year. It has been a blast and the rules are much simpler to me .

[reed28n]

Mod Point

My point is that there is a market for drivers to sell motors. We continue to hang on to engines that could be replaced by racers.

Wild cat racing will put some boats on the water for the near term. Long term people will lose interest.

Reduce the number of national motors and focus your energy on the core. Take all of the engines that are raced locally out of the rule book. Simplfy everything top to bottom in APBA and we will succeed.

We have been trying it the current way everything is and we are shrinking.

[ram95]

Combine Category's

[QUOTE=jsilvestri;167836]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the mod catagory and the great job they have done combininb like engines? 250cc is a good example, you can race either the Hot Rod, 20-H Merc or a stock 22cu.in. OMC.


Joe, I would agree.
That's why I mention the NBRA section titled "Classes, Engines, & Weights". The way they have motors grouped is very much like your post. Mod motors are mixed with stock motors. Your Min weight is determined by the motor you are running.
No annoying height restrictions either. You run your boat out-of-control, you're kicked out of the race.

Perhaps the first place to start combining things would be to combine Stocks, Mod, PRO, and J into one. Instead of each operating in its own separate vacuum.

I realize that last paragraph is going to go over like a lead balloon, but each commission operating alone, with its own private agenda, seems to have outlived its usefulness. We just don't have the number of racers we used to. We need to join forces, we're in this boat together.. like it or not.

Another area that gets overlooked when we have so many categories and classes a person can run in one day.... they never work patrol boat, judges stand, turn-boat, inspection, etc. And, at the end of the long day, they have to pack up all that stuff and hit the road. Who packs up the club stuff? Same old same old

Alex

[csh2z]

Do nothing. We'll be fine.

[Matt Dagostino]

Hell yea...................

Perhaps the first place to start combining things would be to combine Stocks, Mod, PRO, and J into one. Instead of each operating in its own separate vacuum

Alex[/QUOTE]

Alex
This was my point many posts ago.............one day this will happen. But the chances of it happening in our lifetime are about the same as getting Ed Hearn to vote for O'Bama!!

[csh2z]

Combining categories is like throwing in the towel, it's a defeatest attitude. There is no reason we can't grow Stock Outboard to be self sustaining in all regions of the country, if we actually put forth the effort. A simple, marketable program is the first step.