Future is Now

[racer3j]

14h

[QUOTE]With all do respect to my good friends at Sidewinder, there is something still wrong with the Model 15S (the B Class Sidewinder). Only one in the country runs right and it is owned by Richard Runne.
/QUOTE]

Why do believe it just the motor, because as a matter of fact the motor that we have been running was given to Richard Hearn at Franklin Pa and he was not able to get it to run now considering the same motor runs well with our prop and on our boat, did you think it could happen to be what is on the prop shaft?

PS. The motor that Richard Hearn returned to Sidewinder was run at the nationals by Brian Trolian and was equal if not a little bit faster then the 14H.

PSS. The Sidewinder off the back of our boat is always for sale at the end of the weekend.

[Big Don]

Ok let me try this again, maybe I’m reading stuff wrong which is the problem doing this in writing.

When I first read, we’ll call it Dean’s proposal, I didn’t see anything about eliminating engines.

Than Dean posted…

John,

That is exactly what I proposed! One "New Motor" in production in each class A,B,C, D. While maintaining the current equipment, to be phased out after 3-5 years. The only exception is A which would have two "New Motor" options, Sidewinder and Mercury.

I was in support of Dean proposal but not if it includes elimination of the old engines. Did I miss that in the proposal?

How can we tell ALL our popular classes that the engines they have will not be legal in 3-5 year, all at one time. It will destroy our category.

[B Walker]

How can we tell ALL our popular classes that the engines they have will not be legal in 3-5 year, all at one time. It will destroy our category.

Yes, some people will leave. But I bet a lot less will leave if they have several years heads up to these changes instead of getting the changes dropped on them at a National Meeting like what happened in 1985.

Dana can provide the exact numbers but I have read that 1985 was the single largest drop in membership in the last 30+ years.

Heres the choices:

1) Do nothing
2) Make all the needed changes immediately and make them effective immediately
3) Give the membership a clear plan with timelines that can be adjusted as participation makes sense.

Which makes sense to you?

BW

[Big Don]

Or we could have…

We could have taken one class, given them a new engine, make sure things work well, make sure the new engine in 3/5 year has the advantage if you work at it, (or do we want everyone to be equal and not have to work at it right out of the box)…not eliminate the old engines so those that can’t afford to change don’t leave but understand they won’t be the engine of choice, then move to the next class.

How are we supposed to tell a father and child team or multiple racer families (and there are quite a few of them) that they are going to have to buy at least 2 new engines (9000.00) and possibly 2 new boats (8000.00) new props (2000.00) in the next 3 – 5 years and expect them to stay?

[dholt]

I wish I had the membership stats from back in the 80's, but I don't.

I can say that the notion that there was a HUGE drop in ASR/ASH participation from 1985 (old Merc) to 1986 (new OMC) is FALSE.

I base this on local racing and attendance at the Nationals. I ran ASR in 1984 and '85. Nearly qualified in 1985 with a 4th in my elim. Point being...there weren't 10 elims in '84 or '84 at the Stock Nationals. Probably around 5-6. In 1987 at Hinton there were 55 ASH's and 53 ASR's sporting brand new OMC engines. This is fact. Local racing in ASH/ASR was big as well. It was NOT so in our club/area in the final years of the 'A' Merc.

Dumping that 'A' Merc was the smartest move in the history of Stock Racing. Not only opening up a supply of new parts/engines, but also eliminating the monopoly a select few drivers had on "good" parts. Also the safety measures mandated with the OMC (height rules) also was a HUGE positive. Didn't have to run jacked to the moon and crashing all the time. Anyone remember those days? I sure do. Tom Marcell crashing his ASH testing on glass water just because it was sky high.

I know I'm not the only one who remembers all this. Same types of things are happening nowadays in certain classes. Dwindling parts, dwindling motor 'gurus' who make them run fast...dwindling participation.

[BP125V]

A classes

Dana,

I have elim sheets for many Nat's unfortunately I can't find '85. Keep in mind that '85 was the last blast for the Merc's and we had some come out of the woodwork for that race. I got in as 2nd alt. with a slow 3rd (I think).

1986 had 46 ASH's and ASR had 44.

In region 7 with the introduction of the OMC we had a huge jump in ASH and ASR entries locally with elims in ASH most races. Then we had a huge jump in J's when the OMC became the engine. In 1989 we had 21 JH's at Burlington! No lie, 21 and most of them were from region 7. Also had 19 25SSH's that year too. Go figure. Many of these J and A racers were new names and those that were not, like my brother for instance, could go out and buy a new OMC and be competitive whereas you just could not do that with the KG4's.

However, I do not think that the situation today with the OMC A is quite the same as it was with the Merc in '84-'85. There are tons of OMC parts out there and engines are available that will run good. Yes getting a great OMC nowadays is difficult but it can be done. Not so with the Merc in '84 & '85. Also like Big Don pointed out it was only one class, not like the situation we find ourselves in now.

Bill

PS - in '86, which was prior to the OMC in J, there were no elims in JSR or JSH.

[BP125V]

1988

Sorry I do not have elim sheets for 1987 (probably still in Sobol's van) but I do have 1988.

ASR 50 - 5 elims, ASH 57 -5 elims.

18 JH, no JR elims.

ASR enduro 28 boats, 56 drivers.

trivia question: Who did Dana team up with in the enduro? Better yet, who did Joe Silvestri team up with?

hint: I bet Dana had the better partner.

Bill

[raceright]

Sorry I do not have elim sheets for 1987 (probably still in Sobol's van) but I do have 1988.

ASR 50 - 5 elims, ASH 57 -5 elims.

18 JH, no JR elims.

ASR enduro 28 boats, 56 drivers.

trivia question: Who did Dana team up with in the enduro? Better yet, who did Joe Silvestri team up with?

hint: I bet Dana had the better partner.

Bill

Raced in 1983 (maybe 84) at Nationals in 500 cch 43 boats(finished 3rd overall) all classes had these kind of numbers in pro. This is a look back and can not be repeated,suggest you accept this and think outside the box to increase your stockoutboard numbers..The old way ???? I don't know

[B Walker]

Sorry I do not have elim sheets for 1987 (probably still in Sobol's van) but I do have 1988.

ASR 50 - 5 elims, ASH 57 -5 elims.

18 JH, no JR elims.

ASR enduro 28 boats, 56 drivers.

trivia question: Who did Dana team up with in the enduro? Better yet, who did Joe Silvestri team up with?

hint: I bet Dana had the better partner.

Bill

If that was the year Colleen Rosado went home with all the OMC's....

then I teamed up with Matt Scheidt for the Enduro and we got thrown out because my partner took a swing at Freddie Miller. Who would have guessed Froelich was a better option?

good times, good times

BW

[B Walker]

We could have taken one class, given them a new engine, make sure things work well, make sure the new engine in 3/5 year has the advantage if you work at it, (or do we want everyone to be equal and not have to work at it right out of the box)…not eliminate the old engines so those that can’t afford to change don’t leave but understand they won’t be the engine of choice, then move to the next class.

How are we supposed to tell a father and child team or multiple racer families (and there are quite a few of them) that they are going to have to buy at least 2 new engines (9000.00) and possibly 2 new boats (8000.00) new props (2000.00) in the next 3 – 5 years and expect them to stay?

I dont support removal of any current engine from having a place to race.

But I do support a clear designation of "motor of choice" for new drivers in every class and a flexible timeline to sunset out of production engines based on participation levels.

We need to be able to look new racers in the eye and tell them "This is the plan".

Then stick to the plan within a flexible timeframe that makes sense.

We are having this discussion because there is no current plan. When we start discussing every year if (insert class) can stand alone next year as a single motor in current production class we will be moving forward in this discussion.

Right now it is groundhog day, we are having the same discussion every year for as long as I have been involved in the sport.

BW

[jsilvestri]

Sorry I do not have elim sheets for 1987 (probably still in Sobol's van) but I do have 1988.

ASR 50 - 5 elims, ASH 57 -5 elims.

18 JH, no JR elims.

ASR enduro 28 boats, 56 drivers.

trivia question: Who did Dana team up with in the enduro? Better yet, who did Joe Silvestri team up with?

hint: I bet Dana had the better partner.

Bill

Bill, I won't tell but I do remember running the enduros, 87', 88', and 89' for me and they were a lot of fun!

[pav225]

2009

J - Merc and OMC
AX- Merc and OMC

A - OMC, Sidewinder
15SS - 15CID Hot Rod and Sidewinder
20SSH - Yamato 80, Restricted 302
25 - 25 Merc, 20CID Hot Rod and Sidewinder
C - Yamato 102 and 302
D - Merc and Tohatsu

Hmmmm....I actually like the motors listed for every class. Include the Merc in A class and it's outstanding (don't let Troy know I said that).

- Mike

[MGallagher]

Ahhhh...when life was easy

Heres the entries for just a marathon in late 80's early 90's

[PopPop]

I thought the idea was also "to reduce the number of classes".
What is wrong with?;

A OMC, Sidewinder
B 15-Hot Rod 15-Sidewinder Yamato-80
25 25-Merc, 20-Hot Rod 20-Sidewinder Restricted-302
C Yamato 102 Yamato-302
D Mercury Tohatsu

[csh12M]

Matt awsome picture!!!!!!!!

Matt that is a great picture!

Richard Hearn is that you rocking the Mullet in the first Pic?