Live From Seattle - APBA Meeting

[csh2z]

The past is the past, let's look forward. We are all passionate about our sport, remember that when you're in an argument with someone. We all have different perspectives to view the issues and therefore different ways to get a solution. To me the most important thing is to first set a goal, then plan the best way to acheive it. In our current state, with membership low and new motors available, we can make a transition without losing too many people.
When we speak of transitioning from one (or more) motor(s) to a new motor, the timeframe we have proposed is a three year phase out. At this point, the beginning of the phase out wouldn't begin for 2 to possibly 4 or more years from now. If we move too quickly we would kill the class we want to grow. The most controversial class, I'll use as an example. 20SSH is one of our most popular classes, but, the motor is hard if not impossible to get parts for, especially for new drivers. The timing is critical. If move we too quickly we would kill the class we want to grow. If we wait too long, we will lose drivers. It may be only 2 or 3 in the beginning but as the part supply diminishes people will also disappear. Between 2006 & 2007 in 20SSH, the participation dropped by 23-24 drivers. What happened during that time?

[Blackhawkguy]

My point is..........

My point is not to complain but to point out when you look at the total number of classes side by side the number has hardly changed in 30+ years, (it looked better before I posted, it changed the spacing for some reason) just diferent names or motors moved around. Your post on the steering comitee makes total sense, but everyone talks about tomorrow we will fix it and it has not been fixed in all this time. The more motors you spread around the harder it is to get rid of them, if some people had their way we would still be running KG4's if not for a bold descision to drop them all together when the new A motor came out-to bad nothing that dramatic has happend since-motors get moved around instead of left to die due to parts or lake of speed in their class. The one simple solution over the years has been to get the classes to a manigable number, around the early 90's was as closs as we have come, ever since all that has been done is to add classes thru another division to the weekend and moved motors around trying to fill classes that obviously should of been dropped.

Kerry

[ram95]

Limiting classes by eliminating the engines being run in them just seems to eliminate "racers" ie, race entries.

Seems like the proliferation of "classes" started when APBA stopped grouping them by displacement (cubic inch), and allowed introducing things like 45ss, 25xs, super-stock this and superstock that, and there are/were others. Not that 45ss doesn't have a following out on the left-coast. And, personally I wouldnt want to see it eliminated since it equates to race entries out there. But, tell me, what cubic inch "class" did that engine fit into 'back in the day'?

[Blackhawkguy]

Why some people drown....

It's a terrible thing but the main reason people who cannot swim drown is they panick and flail all around and basicaly make a big hole in the water and sink. If only they would take a deap breath and just lye still they would float and be able to get them selves out of a bad situation by thinking and making moves in one direction towards shore.

You have pointed out excactly what happens with the exception of the early 80' when the last batch of new motors became available, nobody wants to eliminate their motor so what do we do, we make classes like 20SS, 25SS, 35SS all would of fit into their cubbic inch class and all ran within 1-mph of the engines that existed in that class at the time but every one wanted to keep their old Mercury's so they said we will make a new class. Then you have to many classes to run in one day and the whole thing keeps going, just like ground hog day, over and over, and over.

Somebody needs to figure out how to break the chain. You cannot keep adding classes.

Kerry

[blueskyracer]

If you think about that list of classes it is big and when the local club holds a race they also throw in all the mod versions of those stock classes and the list then doubles. No wonder you need glow sticks on the bows to finish a race each day.

[pav225]

20SSH is one of our most popular classes, but, the motor is hard if not impossible to get parts for, especially for new drivers...

John,
I don't mean to argue, but this simply is not true. Anyone can buy a new Y302 for 20ssH and essentially all parts are available for the Y80 except for new megaphone holders. Please don't discount the fact that Montoya and TJ have worked very hard to provide racers with the parts they need.

- Mike

p.s. It was good to see you at the meeting in Seattle.

[nbass]

Read the NBRA Success Post

All the APBA Fans need to read the whole NBRA Post and consider changing attitudes and ways of doing things. Else, collaps under your own weight

NBRA success

Alot of talk has been said lately about shortening the schedules for an APBA race and cutting classes so I just thought I would post some of the principles that the ODA runs our races by and what makes us succesful with a short number of classes.

The ODA costs for putting on a race is anywhere from 2-3K depending on how far from our home base it is, which is Quincy, IL. When I go and sell a race to a community the requirements for the community are as follows: The must have prize money of at least $1,500 for a small local race and at least $2,500 for the bigger races. We also require that the community provide an ambulance for both days, porta pottis, water patrol, and any security that is needed. I sell the race as an event. We will bring in everything else that is needed to put on a race. We tell them it will be a 4 hour program that will be very entertaining. All money recieved from the sponsor is given to the drivers as prize and tow money. We pay all expenses out of the entry fees we generate. We charge $25 for the first class, $20 for the second, and 15 for all the rest. Over the last 10 years we have made a small profit for the club every year. We pay all of our officials to work the judges stand. We pay for the travel and hotel for the referee. Heck we even pay the flag person. All of this with only the possibility of 14 classes. Most of the time we have anywhere from 7-10 classes at our local races. At most of the races we out on we have full fields, especially in the mod 4cyl classes.

It can be done, you can shorten your race days and still survive, we are the prime example.
__________________
Keith Kampen

[modracer7b]

In the 60's

We had J - A - B - C - D hydro and runabout and 36 runabout. 11 classes. When I left around 72 that was it. When I came back mid 80's add 20SS, 25SS, 15SS and I knew the 35SS had come and gone. The B had the Mercury and the Champion Hot Rod. The preferred engine bounced back and forth and seemed to work fine.

Why not go back to that model and handle the different engines this way. Decide what the preferred engine will be. Let all the old engines that are the same or slower still run the class, but the understanding will be that engine X is the preferred engine for the class and all the others can run until they go away, but will not be given any help to beat engine X. Things can be done to let engine Y, Z, etc. to be close and maybe have a longshot chance to beat engine X if everything goes perfect. This does two things. 1. A member can continue to run his rig while he saves to get engine X. He understands that he is basically just having fun until he can afford to upgrade to an engine X rig. 2. By letting engine Y, Z, etc be close, that member still has hope to try and be that longshot winner.

All the classes can be handled this way. All non-preferred engines can be fit in where they fall into the longshot catergory against a preferred engine. You will lose far fewer members as they can still be racing and some new members may prefer buying cheap longshot equipment to try things out. If they like it, they will stay and upgrade their equipment to become competative. Lastly, there are many members who race for many other reasons than winning a race. They want all the other advantages of being in the boat racing family. They could care less about being the longshot as long as they can afford to run something to go with the rest of the experience.

Bill Rosado

[D Shafer]

H*** lets make it simple runabout marathon then hydro marathon all classes combined 40 minutes we are done

[mike ross]

Donnie get off the Red Pop my friend. Take them cans in so we can party in 2 weeks. Mikey

[14-H]

*****

What the heck did I miss????

****.

An understanding as to the importance of the Merc A in the A Classes and the Y-102 in 25SSR classes for certain Regions to conduct their races and certain racers to be able to compete and existing membership concerns about the introduction of new equipment. There were no safeguards in place before this meeting to ensure a smooth introduction of new engines into the category without eliminating the old. This meeting secured that for the existing members. They will have a place to race their equipment in SO as long as they wish to.

Moreover, the Parity Committee idea, which is bad-mouthed by some as being a detriment to new equipment, didn't stop a handful of orders being placed for new Sidewinder engines after the SO Meeting was adjourned.

Following this meeting there were two successes:

1) New engines are now available for all SO Classes. That was not true before this annual meeting; and

2) A proven-system is in place to ensure that the new engines will NOT run away from the existing equipment.

Now THAT is a political solution to a real issue and will advance SO beyond 2006.

Eddie.

[Blackhawkguy]

Only time will tell

Yes I would agree that the meeting was a success, only after a few years and people add their tweaks here and there will you see if it stics. I think in general it was a good move, hope it can keep going in the right direction.

Kerry

[Matt Dagostino]

Wow.................

Please don't discount the fact that Montoya and TJ have worked very hard to provide racers with the parts they need.

- Mike

Hey Mike
Nice to know. While i was one of the only Commissioners on the floor fighting to keep the 20ssh class a Yamato only class via the new and availablle 302 model from Yamato, it would have been nice if you and the rest of Team Pavlick would have stepped up and flexed your musscles. You guys sure didn't have a case of dry mouth when it came time to discuss the issue of lowering the engine mounting height of the Yamato 20ssh class which would have helped push the 302 tword being much more competitive in the class and maybe help 'some' owners from burning up engines at the current class height. You guys tore me up in Seattle like you did at Grass Lake on the course last summer!

Now you have TWO current manufactures in the class competing for a very small market share.................i am a believer in one engine in one class IF POSSIBLE. Given the current economic conditions and membership numbers that is tough for now! Also, it is important to have a MOTOR OF CHOICE in each of our classes. It is virtually impossible to establish so called PARITY amongst several engines that are so dissimilar in construction in a class. Since the majority of the SORC has spoken in favor of the legalization of the new 20ci Sidewinder, which so little is known into the 3rd biggest class in our cataglory, hopefully we will see a boost in class participation and easier access to new equipment which is the ultimate goal.

Thanks again to Region 10 for a great Convention and to Hydroracer.net for keeping the members up to date via Mike Ross. The Unlimited Museum and the J Class boat program were great to see up close and personal. Also, the home made chocolate chip cookies were a real bonus to help keep focus through 3 days of Ed Hearn's meetings. Just kidding Ed.

[reed28n]

Fear

An understanding as to the importance of the Merc A in the A Classes and the Y-102 in 25SSR classes for certain Regions to conduct their races and certain racers to be able to compete and existing membership concerns about the introduction of new equipment. There were no safeguards in place before this meeting to ensure a smooth introduction of new engines into the category without eliminating the old. This meeting secured that for the existing members. They will have a place to race their equipment in SO as long as they wish to.

Moreover, the Parity Committee idea, which is bad-mouthed by some as being a detriment to new equipment, didn't stop a handful of orders being placed for new Sidewinder engines after the SO Meeting was adjourned.

Following this meeting there were two successes:

1) New engines are now available for all SO Classes. That was not true before this annual meeting; and

2) A proven-system is in place to ensure that the new engines will NOT run away from the existing equipment.

Now THAT is a political solution to a real issue and will advance SO beyond 2006.

Eddie.

I still do not see and no one has provided any statistics on how many racers were left on the beach, before you swooped in to save the sport. Many of the people who wanted motors in multiple classes want to race the same equipment in more classes rather than run fewer classes more heats or more races at an event.

As you mentioned the perception of the parity committee (which allows the Chairman too much power) is bad - by some. The perception of last years meeting was bad - by some.

You have muddied the waters. In the end I support the introduction of the sidewinder. I would not have endorsed it in the 20SSH class. Which I have clearly stated.

I support the parity committee to parity motors in the classes, as long as the committee is approved by the commission and each committee is chaired by a different person. I support getting more water time for our youngsters. We do not agree on how to do it.

You have a disconnect. Allowing the old motors to run does not help us grow. How many people did not have a place to race? We have a way to allow old motors to run in Regions that struggle.

Your job as chairman is to establish a National platform for the success of the best racing category on the planet.

Keeping all models of all motors in all of the classes puts new members at risk. The have an increased likelihood to purchase a motor that is difficult to maintain due to lack of parts and difficult to compete with because they buy it as a used motor.

My goal was to have new drivers buy the right motor for the right class the first time and increase our chances of retaining that new driver.

[pav225]

No Excuses

Matt,
I agree. We blew it and I apologize to the 20ssH drivers who would like to see it remain a very competitive, and affordable, Yamato class. We were convinced that the vote was going to be different and consequently didn't say enough to protect the class. Thanks for your defense in the meeting, we were pretty shocked at the result.

I guess I would be interested in knowing what current 20ssH drivers think of the change.

- Mike