Live From Seattle - APBA Meeting

[reed28n]

I am a little confused

People on this thread were concerned that there was an ulterior motive to allow Sidewinder to take over the world. (even though there is no way they will ever break even with the investment they have made to this point)

So they disbanded the Steering Committe idea and vote out the old commission. Then the new commission rubber stamps sidewinders everywhere. (No Runne voted)

People on this thread want to eliminate classes, when we were nearly hung for suggesting we eliminate motors from classes. Even though there was a place to race each motor that was discussed.

Now the day is too long and we have too much duplication.

What the heck did I miss????



We have too many classes in every category. Old Stock motors should not be scrapped. When they have used up there usefull life they should be modified motors. No currently in production motors should be allowed to race in modified outboard. Now you have created a place to race some older equipment. And I will argue that most of the mod racers are better mechanics or more willing to tinker than stock racers.

Not only the motors would move from stock to mod. If the Mod category received this thoery of formatting only obsolete stock motors they would very likely get the racer that is so in love with their super thunder bolt that he would race it in mod, because in the end it shouldn't matter what the class is called as long as you get on the water.

Then set your schedule ALL STOCK - ALL Modified subject to combination. Each area knows what that combination number needs to be based on their demographics.

Stock = currently in prodcution. Sidewinder A,B,20, Y-302,Tohatsu, Easy to get and easy to maintain. Easy to get on the water. Easy program to understand easy to attract new racers.

[Graham 18ce]

Dana theory is good really in a certain manor off thought, unfortunately it would only put two classes out currently - BSR and DSR base on 2009 high point standings. neither of which are a factor to me as they tend to be regionally run and popular when there.
other are close to the line but not there yet...
i really hate to see BSR go away as it is the only true runabout class left in my mind...long live the roll up.

[B Walker]

People on this thread were concerned that there was an ulterior motive to allow Sidewinder to take over the world. (even though there is no way they will ever break even with the investment they have made to this point)

So they disbanded the Steering Committe idea and vote out the old commission. Then the new commission rubber stamps sidewinders everywhere. (No Runne voted)

People on this thread want to eliminate classes, when we were nearly hung for suggesting we eliminate motors from classes. Even though there was a place to race each motor that was discussed.

Now the day is too long and we have too much duplication.

What the heck did I miss????

You did not miss a thing Scott.

The Sidewinder issue was used to fire up an apathetic base to support the installation of new leadership.

It was never about Sidewinders role in Stock Outboard. At its worst it was about a conspiracy theory of East Coast based power with you as the leader, the Runne family as your second in command and the rest of the people that supported your points of view as mind-numbed lackeys.

In other words, the issue was used to drive a wedge. A common political tactic used by most politicians.

The fact that the new leadership installed all the biggest parts of your stated agenda should not be viewed as amazing so much as a nod and a complement to your vision of Stock Outboard.

ty

BW

[Big Don]

Don, this is a great idea......reduce the number of classes and consolidate our driver pool. That is exactly the kind of thinking that you voted out. Everything that was heading us in that direction was reversed and now we will have more classes than ever, a diluted pool of drivers, 3 and 4 boat classes all day long.

You did have a great idea about the customer service. Kind of an exit poll for people who have not renewed.

But, we will need the infrastructure at APBA to do it.

Scott, Other than putting the Merc back in the A class and putting the 102 back in the C class what did the SORC do that you didn't want? I looked at it at the end of the week and thought we pretty much put Scott's platform in.

Steering Committee not getting appointed was not the SORC decision.

And the Kevlar certification rule…

Two points… First, I don’t think it was a good business decision making the Sidewinder legal in 7 classes. If this were a business and you had 11 products that you sold would you make major changes to 7 of them at one time? Just something to think about. Will I support it, yes, but I don’t think it was a good decision.

Second point…If the first point didn’t exist and that is a good decision…I can support the other classes the SORC changed this year other than putting the Sidewinder in 20. Before you or anyone else try’s saying we were trying to protect our own interest that is not true. For the record, today I own 2 mercury’s, 4 OMC’s, 4 102’s, and a few 20’s that are slowly being made obsolete. And 1 really good 20 engine that might have gone away at the end of the year. I heard it several times last week, “you guys are just trying to protect your investment”. Are you F’ing kidding me? Really? I have 11 other engines that we all know could very quickly become obsolete and I support them. I know the parity committee is there to protect us. But does anyone really believe they are not going to make them go as fast as the best old engines? If not why would anyone buy one? They might sell a few but why would others buy them to replace their old engines then. Unless they can’t get parts. And if you think you know how someone on those parity committees will vote, you might want to get prepared to be surprised.

We already had a new engine available in the 20 class. It's the 302 and it’s very competitive for a lot of racers. I believe that it will be (would have been before the Sidewinder) the engine of choice. I have a 302 that we were going to start working on. Now I have to decide if that is the direction we want to go.

Will be interesting to see how the vote goes 2 years from now. Could be some huge turnouts at some region meetings. Scott, start your campaign and maybe I’ll endorse it. Maybe I’ll try to get Backus and I to run for the SORC next time.

[AZ Outlaw]

The APBA HQ is staffed by some very nice people; however, their communication systems must be brought into the modern era. Communication systems change rapidly and APBA must keep up or die as an organization. It must become more of a service organization aggressively reaching out to those current and past racer to keep them active.

The APBA must begin to run itself more as a business or at least a service organization. You need to become more pro-active rather than reactive.

Well, that was a topic of discussion for a good 10-15 minutes at the annual meeting on Saturday. Deciding how to pay for the $$,$$$ upgrade was discussed with viable options being discussed. One way to save that much $$$ at once and allocate it to the Computer Systems Upgrade, was to offer a (print on-demand) rule book. Printing the Rule book for each member is extremely expensive. So, the issue of upgrading their system as a major concern is known, and solutions to funding it are being found.

[forshey99]

People on this thread were concerned that there was an ulterior motive to allow Sidewinder to take over the world. (even though there is no way they will ever break even with the investment they have made to this point)

So they disbanded the Steering Committe idea and vote out the old commission. Then the new commission rubber stamps sidewinders everywhere. (No Runne voted)

People on this thread want to eliminate classes, when we were nearly hung for suggesting we eliminate motors from classes. Even though there was a place to race each motor that was discussed.

Now the day is too long and we have too much duplication.

What the heck did I miss????



We have too many classes in every category. Old Stock motors should not be scrapped. When they have used up there usefull life they should be modified motors. No currently in production motors should be allowed to race in modified outboard. Now you have created a place to race some older equipment. And I will argue that most of the mod racers are better mechanics or more willing to tinker than stock racers.

Not only the motors would move from stock to mod. If the Mod category received this thoery of formatting only obsolete stock motors they would very likely get the racer that is so in love with their super thunder bolt that he would race it in mod, because in the end it shouldn't matter what the class is called as long as you get on the water.

Then set your schedule ALL STOCK - ALL Modified subject to combination. Each area knows what that combination number needs to be based on their demographics.

Stock = currently in prodcution. Sidewinder A,B,20, Y-302,Tohatsu, Easy to get and easy to maintain. Easy to get on the water. Easy program to understand easy to attract new racers.

Scott,

For the record, I DID NOT think there was an ulterior motive for the steering committee. I DO support Sidewinder. I stated that the tone on HR was one of ulterior motives between the steering committee and SW. That was evident and I simply stated that was part of the steering committees demise in response to John's comment that the SC was making the tough decision to eliminate classes. I supported the steering committee and still support the tough decision to cut classes.
I wanted to clear the air about that as your reference to "some people" used dialogue from my post and I am not one of the "some people" who are trying to keep SO in the dark ages.

Kind regards,
Nate

[pav225]

Concern

People on this thread were concerned that there was an ulterior motive to allow Sidewinder to take over the world. (even though there is no way they will ever break even with the investment they have made to this point).

Scott and All,
Personally, I find it very hard to believe that they are making any money on a $4800 motor (I would have guessed that they are losing money at $4800). I think the real concern stems from the number of classes that one, new, motor manufacturer will be responsible for. In essence, 70-80% of all Stock Outboard drivers will be reliant on the efforts of Ed. I know he is great with motors, but that is a lot of responsibility for one person.

Also, people tend to remember that the motor was a Champion until they went out of business, then Dave Little owned them for a while, and now Ron has invested a lot of money in the company...

Most people's intentions are to protect the health of the Stock Outboard category, while supporting the introduction of new motors and new motor manufacturers.

- Mike Pavlick

NOTE: No Reed's or Gladkowski's were harmed in the writing of this post :-)

[csh12M]

SORC and Sidewinder

Based on the SORC decisions I purchased a 20S Sidewinder at the meeting and Doug Wellings purchased a 15S (A motor) Sidewinder. I am waiting to do my taxes, then may purchase another 20S. I want to race it in both Hydro and Runabout.

12M

[B Walker]

Personally, I find it very hard to believe that they are making any money on a $4800 motor (I would have guessed that they are losing money at $4800)

Hard to believe? How about not possible. As a business, I dont believe Sidewinder will ever make money. Not even if every Stock Outboarder bought one. So ask yourself why Ron Selewach has done this. Hint: It was never about making money.

I think the real concern stems from the number of classes that one, new, motor manufacturer will be responsible for. In essence, 70-80% of all Stock Outboard drivers will be reliant on the efforts of Ed. I know he is great with motors, but that is a lot of responsibility for one person.

For the sake of consistency, is that what you thought when racers were 100% dependent on Mercury? Whats the alternative? More life support for 20+ year old motors? If anyone can handle that responsibilty it is Ed.

Also, people tend to remember that the motor was a Champion until they went out of business, then Dave Little owned them for a while, and now Ron has invested a lot of money in the company...

Yep, 100% agree it is not a viable business model, so, why is Ron doing this?

Most people's intentions are to protect the health of the Stock Outboard category, while supporting the introduction of new motors and new motor manufacturers.

This is a new motor and there are no new racing outboard manufacturers. There are not going to be any new racing motor manufacturers. There is NO MONEY in making outboard racing engines.

Alot of people dont understand or dont believe that Racing Outboards LLC could possibly be doing this for any other reason besides making money. Please at least consider that there might be another reason.

I worked with a buyer for Hot Rod from Moulder and Little for two years trying to make a legitimate business case for purchasing Hot Rod and making racing outboards for profit. I can assure you the numbers are so horrible nobody with a business sense would have taken the company if Hot Rod tried to give it away.

Whats done is done. Sidewinder is now approved in 7 classes. Buy one or dont.

But it is a mistake to apply normal business rules to what Sidewinder is doing.

BW

[14J]

NOTE: No Reed's or Gladkowski's were harmed in the writing of this post :-)

Thanks for putting a smile on my face this morning. Just wait until they see who's building my new CSH. They'll never use Reed and Gladkowski in the same sentence again.

[mike ross]

Troy everyone is region 6 is pissed!!!!!! You need me to send you the want adds for homes for sale in the Grass Lake area. Mikey

[14J]

Troy everyone is region 6 is pissed!!!!!! You need me to send you the want adds for homes for sale in the Grass Lake area. Mikey

At this point I might as well. My new trailer is currently being stored in Marshall, my boat is being built in an undisclosed location in region 6, hell Clark took me on my first snowmobiling trip and now I dream of snow.

The best part of course is being that much closer to the Pavlicks. Although after seeing where they had to pit at Grass Lake I may not want to associate with them. Even Reed was treated better than that.

[mike ross]

Scott said you started off slow but caught on quick. Nothing like a bunch of horsepower under your thumb. Hope you guys come for stag weekend sometime soon. Its in 2 weeks talk to Scott. Best trails anywhere. I will give you a report after this weekend. Going up to watch the 500 mile Soo 500 My treat on room and board and hospitality anytime you want to come over. We will trash talk Reed and Hearn over some beers too. Mikey

[Big Don]

Troy, It wasn’t that bad pitting next to me.

[Blackhawkguy]

1975-1980-1988-1994-2010

stock classes plus the "J" catagory

1980-----1988---1994---- 2010

JSR-------JSR-----JSR-----JSR

JSH-------JSH-----JSH---- JSH

ASR------ASR-----ASR-----ASR

ASH -----ASH-----ASH-----ASH

15SSR----15SSR---BSR-----AXR-J catagory

15SSH----15SSH---BSH----AXH-J catagory

BSR-------BSR-----20SSH--BSR

BSH-------BSH-----25SSR--BSH

25SSR-----25SSR--25SSH--20SSH

25SSH-----25SSR---CSR---25SSR

20SSR-----CSR------CSH---25SSH

20SSH-----CSH------DSR----CSR

CSR-------DSR------DSH----CSH

CSH-------DSH------45SS---DSR-smallest number of classes pure stock 1994

35SSR-----45SS-------------DSH

35SSH-----20SSH-----------45SS

DSR-----------------------------

DSH-----------------------------

Super C Hydro-thru 75 or so------

36 Runabout thru 75 or so--------

seams to me 1994 was the year Stock almost had themselvs back to as simplest of format as possible-the next year was the C2 class wich was a joke-1994 you could of combined 20&25 to form a B class and reinstated 15ss.

As you can see Stock has not changed that much in the amount of classes run during a weekend with the exception of 45ss, all the *****ing, hard work, and squabling and it has stayed almost status quo for over 40 years-seems to me it always will unless you make some serious descisions and quit band-aiding. Maybe when you look above you see that nothing has changed thus maybe why the steady decline.

Please do not take offence to anything said in my post, just thought it was interesting to look at it this way.

Kerry

P.S. you will never run more heats in a day till you down size the class structure, this had been beat to death over and over, do something about it or live with it