Agenda items for stock meeting

[adamallen]

Rule that needs to be looked at ASAP

Mikey- Get me your email and I'll send this proposal to you in a word doc.


Here's something I ran across at Grass Lake this year and we were lucky enough to avoid a potential disaster. Read below.

Currentlly Rule 4, 7 reads like this


7. A legally started heat cannot be cancelled. In the event that a stoppage of a heat is necessary and the lead boat is on the final lap, the order of finish
shall be determined by the order of the previous lap. The driver or drivers responsible for the stoppage of the heat will not be scored. If the lead boat
is not on the final lap, the heat must be restarted and cannot be cancelled unless there are no legal starters.


I would like to propose either eliminate the rule , have it not apply to National , Divisional championships and Record runs or have it read as follows

7. A legally started heat cannot be cancelled. In the event that a stoppage of a heat is necessary and the lead boat is on the final lap, the order of finish may at the discretion of the race committee be determined by the order of the previous lap The driver or drivers responsible for the stoppage of the heat will not be scored. If the lead boat
is not on the final lap, the heat must be restarted and cannot be cancelled unless there are no legal starters.



Here are a couple of examples of how this rule ties the hands of the race committee.

Example 1

At the Divisional Championship Driver A places 1st in heat 1 Driver B is places 2nd. In heat 2 Driver B pegs a start and is on his way to a heat 2 victory. After Driver B finishes lap 2 with Driver A in a close 2nd Driver C crashes and the heat is red flagged. At this point the heat is called and the race is over and Drivers A and B are now tied with 700 points. We know have a situation with no time taken since the race has ended after lap 2 and the timer does not record the times till lap 3 is over. Which driver has won the race? Who gets pre-qualified for the nationals?


You apply this same scenario to a national championship . One could also imagine how this rule could impede a potential record run.

AA

[Big Don]

I got a real kick out of your post requesting that "motor mfg's" need to provide in detail what they consist of.........But Don, UGTBSM!

Alex

Alex, it was a joke...I just have to laugh at all the stuff racers want when it's to their advantage. And some darn well knowing that some of the stuff we won't get and then they throw it in your face...

The same point I was making in the Dyno comment. One year it's this and the next it's that... We are so inconsistent and we wonder what is hurting our sport.

Here is my stance once again on the Sidewinder project. We need the engines but we should have done one class at at time not three.

[17W]

Csr......

I heard the weight is going to 550lbs.....

[3rd Chance]

17w

550 sounds legit.

[reed28n]

Inconsistetcy

It is difficult to be consistent year after year after year. From the early 1900's to 2009.

Our greatest strength is being a member run organization

Our greatest weakness is asking all the members to govern themselves.

We change direction like we change our elected commissioners elected each year. The debates this year has been great to get alot of people involved or rejuvenate their interest in what is going on with their category. You will see a change in direction on some issues from your last commission. The only real problem with this frequent change is the printed rule book and the consistent message to the whole of the membership.

Annual rule changes on the ASH class were debated in a very heated manor. No matter what side of the tuck rule you were on you have to agree......... racing continued.

You could reduce the number of changes by increasing the length of the term of Region Commissioners and making the rule book a live documnet on the internet. The rule book you will be receiving for 2010 will have the new cut suit rule in it this year. It is very likely that this rule will be amended or eliminated. There will be an article in the Propeller but the magazine won't be used by race committees, we will rely on our volunteer officials to recall the article and figure it out at the race. With a live Rule book it could be updated immediately for typos, rule errors and rule changes from our January and March implementaion. The Propeller article could outline any change, then all race committees could print the most recent version of the rule book and have upto date accurate information.

Ideas like this are typically not popular with the old guard of APBA. Some of our veteran members are slow to change, but many of them raced KG4's and now OMC A's, some of them were a part of the 25SS Merc to the 25 OMC and then to the 25XS Merc. I like the look feel and convenience of the printed version of the rule book, but if it going to hold us back from getting racers the most upto date accurate information, it should go.

I am anxious to see the new Technical manual that Brian Trolian has been working on since Raleigh, he has some great ideas and TJ has been helping to get all of the updates accurately displayed in it.

[Matt Dagostino]

Change!

It is difficult to be consistent year after year after year. The only real problem with this frequent change is the printed rule book and the consistent message to the whole of the membership.

The rule book you will be receiving for 2010 will have the new cut suit rule in it this year. It is very likely that this rule will be amended or eliminated.

You are correct on both points!! Our region through me, has proposed eliminating the 'cut suit' rule imposed last year. It is both a cost burden to our members and not consistant with our other racing cataglories safety rules for cut suits/lifevests. The current language in the 2009 Rulebook is suffcient. The real issue is getting the inspectors and/or referee's to step up and ban unsafe equipment at the race site!!

In regards to the rulebook, it would be nice if it could be a fluid document that could be changed quickly as needed throughout the racing year as the J Class Committees rule book is. I look at our rulebook as our Bible and it needs to be able to be more flexable in terms of changes!! The internet thought you suggest is a good one!

[reed28n]

the issue

You are correct on both points!! Our region through me, has proposed eliminating the 'cut suit' rule imposed last year. It is both a cost burden to our members and not consistant with our other racing cataglories safety rules for cut suits/lifevests. The current language in the 2009 Rulebook is suffcient. The real issue is getting the inspectors and/or referee's to step up and ban unsafe equipment at the race site!!

My point was about changing directions and about how we might look to make changes in the future.....

But of course you return the debate to be about you.......

[seanp3]

rule book

I have received my 2010 rule book and am concerned it has not been updated. It still shows the restricted 102 as a legal motor in 20SSH. The rules when downloaded from the APBA site shows it is not a legal motor. It could be there are other issues that have not been updated in the printed copy of the rule book as well

[reed28n]

102

I have received my 2010 rule book and am concerned it has not been updated. It still shows the restricted 102 as a legal motor in 20SSH. The rules when downloaded from the APBA site shows it is not a legal motor. It could be there are other issues that have not been updated in the printed copy of the rule book as well

This was in the latest issue of the Propeller......as a correction...

[AZ Outlaw]

This was in the latest issue of the Propeller......as a correction...

The December issue......after the first race of 2010 was already in the books. Parker,AZ Nov 28-29th.

I like the idea of a tunable rule book.

[ram95]

Tunable Rulebook - Howabout a jet change?

A "tunable rulebook" UGTBSM. All we're gonna get out of that exercise is a bunch ofburned pistons (ie, the affected members) and scored cylinders (ie,wounded ego's of those who dreamed up the change).

In a way, the system we now have is working. STOP don't shoot me yet. Here's my point. Because rule changes made at the last Nat meeting don't go into effect until 2010, we've had ALL FREAKING YEAR to voice our dissatisfaction or approval. And in about 3 weeks, we are going to be able to DUMP some of the dumbness and try again. Hopefully, the cutsuit inspection issue/debacle will go away. But, don't count on it. There are those amongst us who think we can't be trusted and that the village leaders must raise all of us kiddies. Crap!

In the meantime, efforts to make the rulebook more readable need to go on. And, we don't need to be worried about monthly changes that we haven't had the courtesy of reviewing beforehand.

So, keep submitting those agenda items. And come to the meeting if you can find the dough. Bring yer own popcorn!

Alex

[AZ Outlaw]

Because rule changes made at the last Nat meeting don't go into effect until 2010, we've had ALL FREAKING YEAR to voice our dissatisfaction or approval. And in about 3 weeks, we are going to be able to DUMP some of the dumbness and try again. Alex

2010 has already started out West. All I meant by a "tunable" Rule book, is to enable for clerical, misspelled, typo errors that are incorrect on the printed Rule book many of us already have in possession, to be corrected and accessible to Race Committee members. Think it would also benefit the implementation of Safety Rules that are deemed "immediate" throughout a racing season. Great Resources for a Race Committee to have ya think? Once published in Propeller, a revised copy of the book would be nice to obtain...but not necessary as my 2010 Rule book is already collecting post it notes. Last years (National meeting) decisions, are already effecting races right now. Region 12 will have its second race of the 2010 season on Jan 16-17, 2 weeks before the 2010 National Meeting. See you in Seattle Alex

Jeff

[reed28n]

Rule book

A "tunable rulebook" UGTBSM. All we're gonna get out of that exercise is a bunch ofburned pistons (ie, the affected members) and scored cylinders (ie,wounded ego's of those who dreamed up the change).

In a way, the system we now have is working. STOP don't shoot me yet. Here's my point. Because rule changes made at the last Nat meeting don't go into effect until 2010, we've had ALL FREAKING YEAR to voice our dissatisfaction or approval. And in about 3 weeks, we are going to be able to DUMP some of the dumbness and try again. Hopefully, the cutsuit inspection issue/debacle will go away. But, don't count on it. There are those amongst us who think we can't be trusted and that the village leaders must raise all of us kiddies. Crap!

In the meantime, efforts to make the rulebook more readable need to go on. And, we don't need to be worried about monthly changes that we haven't had the courtesy of reviewing beforehand.

So, keep submitting those agenda items. And come to the meeting if you can find the dough. Bring yer own popcorn!

Alex

vicissitude

Alex, first explain what "UGTBSM" means.

2nd the issues that you are hoping to change are already in print for 2010 and are in effect and races are being conduct with the intent to enforce those rules.

So, if anything was to change at the National meeting, it will have to be printed in the Propeller and that will be the amendment to the rule book.

In our current actual practice we already have a live document as "we" the SORC can make unilateral changes to the rules, with Ed's permission, and they will take effect as soon as they are in print.

I am just throwing the idea out there that we save APBA the cost of printing a rule book that each category changes each year.

It could be done two ways: Make everything live on the internet as a download or have each category pull more items into their technical manual that is already a downloaded document and reduce the size and fluidity of the printed rule book. Save the rule book for General Racing rules and by-laws........things that change less frequently.

In the end if the operational cost of APBA is lower we as members we benefit.

[Matt Dagostino]

Woo-Hoo.................

My point was about changing directions and about how we might look to make changes in the future.....

But of course you return the debate to be about you.......

Happy New Year Mr Ex-Chairman. I hope you and Troy don't drink to much tonight. That would kill his diet!

Cheers.

ps...............i also wonder what Alex means by UGTBSM?

[HYDRO21Z]

Amazed at the ignorance yours and or mine

I have been reading all the points of view, and keeping my opinions to myself, but I cannot keep silent anymore.
First let me introduce myself... My name is Dennis Burke, and I have been only racing for a little over 10 years. I choose to race CSH, and CMH because of my size and the speeds. I have been out of racing for a little over 2 years. There was a time when finances were not an issue for me, I could have purchased anything I wanted to race, but due to some stupid financial decisions on my part, I am just getting by.
I say all that to show that money is not my motivation on the positions I am about to state...

When I started racing class structures and engines were as follows..

J class- Restricted OMC
A class- OMC
B class- Hot Rod
20SSH- Y80 (restricted 102's and 302's were added later to keep the class alive because the 80's had been out of production for many years and the class was suffering)
25ssh,ssr- 25 Merc (restricted Yamatos added again to save a dying class)
C class- Yamato 102 and 302
D class- Mercury

NOW..
J class- restricted Omc, and Mercury
AX classes- restricted Omc, and unrestricted Mercury.
B classes Hot Rod (Sidewinder is probationary)
20ssh- Y80, 302, (sidewinder is probationary)
25ssr- 25 Merc, Yamatos, and (sidewinder is testing)
C classes -Same
Etc.

We are the only sport that continues to keep outdated equipment racing. No other motorsport I am aware of (please correct me if I am mistaken) keeps old equipment active ie moto cross, go carting, Jet Ski, motorcycles, Autos.
I find the banter here to be painful and self serving. We have 2 manufacturers trying to support our sport, and we are arguing about whether or not to approve their equipment. Lets reconsider our position, are we on such a solid foundation that we can afford to pick and choose?

I agree with Scott Reed, and the steering committee on their vision for the future of Stock outboard. I don't see where any equipment is going to be eliminated.

If I understand the goal of the steering committee, this is how the future looks..

National Points Level racing..(able to earn national points, divisionals, etc.)

J category- 1 legal engine (Mercury, or Sidewinder, I prefer the Sidewinder choice because they are in current support of "racing only")
Ax category- 1 legal engine (not sure here of engine suggestion only that it seems to be agreed that we need a step up class between J and A)
A category- 1 legal engine (Sidewinder)
B category- 1 legal engine (Sidewinder 20)
C category- 1 legal engine (Yamato 302)
D Category- 1 legal engine (Not sure Tohatsu, or Merc)

Local races... Run what you brung no one is left out, just know that if you want to earn National points you must meet the above criteria.

Ok all that being said I open myself up to criticism, and correction.
In my opinion we should make the sidewinder legal for J,A, and 20ssh now,
keep the Yamatos where they are, and I am uncertain what I think about D,
as the Tohatsu is currently a legal choice.
We must take advantage of Sid Bass, and Ron Selewach's (sp) unselfish contribution to our sport, and provide for our future, not dwell on the past or what is currently best for me and my pocketbook.

When I return to racing I hope to race CSH (with a new 302 from Ric Montoya, and CMH (a new 302 from Ric built for Mod), and contribute my time, and efforts to the growth of the sport I love, and miss so much.

Dennis Burke