2010 Stock Class/Engine Structure

[reed28n]

It's not a motor issue, it's a culture issue.

Mike....

You share a lot of the frustration it will take a little while to deflect. It doesn't seem to matter what motor sport you participate in you will have a driver that just has one of those years. Greg Lyons in ASR, Joe Pater in CSH, Donnie Allen in 20SSH, Matt D'Agostino in oh I mean Valerie in AXSH, Matt had those seasons when I was in diapers. ( he is a pain in the a$$ but he has a storied history of winning and has passed that along with the gene pool ugrades to his blood line)

What new motors will do It will correct the learning curve and insure that everyone has equal access to an ample supply of motors and parts.

A new driver could buy a Yamato 102 or 20 motor to start racing right now. It would likely be race ready. That motor could have been on any number of competitors boats prior to its most recent purchase. And even more likely than that it was sold because it was not the best motor in the stable. Parts to make it as fast as other motors are becoming harder to get and some have been out of production for up to 30 years.

If we all had to buy new motors, many of the same faces would migrate to the front of the pack with know how and testing efforts. But it is just as likely that there is a dynomite driver out there that just hasn't happened on the right combination of prop and motor yet (who the hell is that Mike Perman kid? back to back National Champ)

So while new equipment does not solve all our issues it takes care of many of them.

[SeaBat]

There is one thing being left out the future of outboard racing. It's called 2 cycle engines. I may be mistaken but I believe the 2 cycle Sidewinder has an EPA waiver to be used for racing. What the government giveith the government can and will take away. We are a small minority of voters while the enviornmentalists are many and have the ear of the head of the EPA and the federal government. If someone has better insight on this please correct me.

Bill Thomas
36-R

[voodoo]

first season will be 2010

I am getting very excited about the up comeing race year. My dad and have been preping for it since May of this year, we have done everything suggested by this forum. We read all the threads, we have been to several races. We test drove a boat, we got advice from veteren racers, and we bought a boat. We have volunteered to help at races to watch and learn as well. The last piece of our gear came today (the cut suit)... So here we are, ready.. Waiting for the first race in May.
So I read this thread and I am very confused.. Remember I'm one of the noobs, I have a 20ss hydro with a Yamoto 80, and with the weight of the boat and myself I should be running in the CSH class. I know the motor is out horsepowered, but if I have to run so many races in the rear, thats ok. So my first question to you guys is if the motor is not listed in the class, does that mean we can not run it? Or is that for motors that have to run a restricter plate in a slower class only? When i first started reading on this forum I read stories from people that bought old gear that was so old they could not run it. I hope thats not us.
I read a lot about how its hard to get new people in this sport. Let be give you a perspective from a new guy. First I want to say everybody I ve met at the races have been super friendly and helpful. You peeps are great. However boats and motors are not so easy to find, at least good ones. A noob is not going to buy a kit and build one right off the bat eithier. So I do not understand why in a sport that needs more racers (new people)why would you want to ban old motors. You guys have to know what these motors put out, I can't figure out why you would ban one motor over another if they put out the same or near the same amount of horsepower. that would be like Nascar saying you can only run Chevrolets. If motors go obsolete they will phase out on thier own. If a higher horespower motor runs the same horsepower with a restricter plate, then one that puts out with out one, why would you not let it be ran in the same class........anyway thoughts from a noob.....

One more thing. I hope this gets figured out before I buy my 302, I don't want 2 motors i can't use.......

[csh2z]

Voodoo,
You've got nothing to worry about, the Yamato 80 will be around for at least the next five years, and based on the current long term plan, when the time is right a three year phase out will begin. So you'll have plenty of time to prepare for your next motor purchase (in spite of the panic percieved here on Hydroracer). The Sorc, regardless of who is in charge is doing everything they can to transition to currently manufactured and available motors as smoothly we can and to negatively effect as few members as possible.
The Yamato 302 is currently still being manufactured and is available. It will be our "C" motor for the forseeable future.
Stock Outboard goes through changes very rarely (0nce every 25 -30 years) right now is one of those times. For a relatively small, close-knit group, there will always be differences of opinion on how to get from where we are , to where we want to be.

Welcome to our (sometimes dysfunctional) family

[Team B&H]

The 302 motor may be available for the CSH class but it is certainly not the motor of choice if you want to win the Nationals. It is just not as fast as a really good 102- a fact the SORC members know and have done absolutely nothing to make the 302 more competitive. I guess that has not been surprising when you look at who was on the commission over that period and the CSH contingent all had 102 motors themselves. Sounds just like congress who wants health care for us but exempts themselves- personal interests, anyone? Since its inception, the 302 has only won the Nationals once. I think it was approved in 1996 so that would be once in 13 years! Of course it was started in its own class but because the there were questions about how it would be accepted, those jokers allowed the 102 to run in that class so the 102 guys cleaned up there as well before it became obvious that the 302 wasn't a threat to the 102 establishment.

The question you really want to ask is since the 102 guys voted out the Merc 30-H because the then-new 102 couldn't beat the Merc at the Nationals why they are unwilling to do the same to the 102 now that the 302 has been available for years and can't win the Nationals?

[Trihedral_1]

The 302 motor may be available for the CSH class but it is certainly not the motor of choice if you want to win the Nationals. It is just not as fast as a really good 102- a fact the SORC members know and have done absolutely nothing to make the 302 more competitive. I guess that has not been surprising when you look at who was on the commission over that period and the CSH contingent all had 102 motors themselves. Sounds just like congress who wants health care for us but exempts themselves- personal interests, anyone? Since its inception, the 302 has only won the Nationals once. I think it was approved in 1996 so that would be once in 13 years! Of course it was started in its own class but because the there were questions about how it would be accepted, those jokers allowed the 102 to run in that class so the 102 guys cleaned up there as well before it became obvious that the 302 wasn't a threat to the 102 establishment.

The question you really want to ask is since the 102 guys voted out the Merc 30-H because the then-new 102 couldn't beat the Merc at the Nationals why they are unwilling to do the same to the 102 now that the 302 has been available for years and can't win the Nationals?

Perman won CSH Nationals two times with a 302. Peeters won 20ss Nationals with a restricted 302 (and OSY Nationals with a 302). Mile 1/4, Mile 2/3 20ss records held by 302, etc..

Must give credit where credit is due.

Jimi O. (305-R)

[csh2z]

Sam,
I've got two 302's & a good 102(the 102 is for sale, btw) The 302's are now very competitive on 95% of the courses we run on. I agree the 102 top end has been better in most cases. However, a 302 did win the nationals in '07 & '08. To say the commission hasn't done anything to address this issue is not entirely correct. At the '07 National Meeting we reduced the minimum distance from the start to the first turn from 1500' to 1000', knowing that would help the 302. At the '08 National Meeting we pulled 1/4" off the transom height, primarily to help drivers from cooking their engines, knowing that it would also help the 302 around the race course. At the '09 National Meeting we made a change to a head dimension on the 302 that has helped with acceleration and improved lap times.
I vividly remember the verbal attacks on commissioners, just for pulling a 1/4" shim, and you want them to axe the motor from the class? Blasphemy I say!
BTW I happen to agree.

[drbyrne55]

Let's see someone break a CSH record this year with a 302

As Jimi mentioned ... both 20SSH and OSY400 are starting to see the records go to 302's

[sponsonhead]

Go back further

Perman won CSH Nationals two times with a 302. Peeters won 20ss Nationals with a restricted 302 (and OSY Nationals with a 302). Mile 1/4, Mile 2/3 20ss records held by 302, etc..

Must give credit where credit is due.

Jimi O. (305-R)

And if my memory is correct, it was Billy Allen who won the first OSY Nats with a 302 back in 2005.

R-19

[les]

Sam,
I've got two 302's & a good 102(the 102 is for sale, btw) The 302's are now very competitive on 95% of the courses we run on. I agree the 102 top end has been better in most cases. However, a 302 did win the nationals in '07 & '08. To say the commission hasn't done anything to address this issue is not entirely correct. At the '07 National Meeting we reduced the minimum distance from the start to the first turn from 1500' to 1000', knowing that would help the 302. At the '08 National Meeting we pulled 1/4" off the transom height, primarily to help drivers from cooking their engines, knowing that it would also help the 302 around the race course. At the '09 National Meeting we made a change to a head dimension on the 302 that has helped with acceleration and improved lap times.
I vividly remember the verbal attacks on commissioners, just for pulling a 1/4" shim, and you want them to axe the motor from the class? Blasphemy I say!
BTW I happen to agree.

What? I thought the 3/4" rule was passed as a safety measure? -So it really was to give the 302 an advantage over the 102?

[reed28n]

Noob

Your the guy we were trying to help. The 3rd generation racing family will servive no matter what the motor is. The new driver is the one that needs the most help to keep your interest up. We have to allow you an equal chance to win. We have to keep you around to race against.

The 3rd and 4th generation families are just running out of kids. We cannot continue to shrink. We have to appeal outside our circle.

[csh2z]

Les,
Although the transom heights were created for safety purposes, and are located in the rule book under safety, the change to 3/4" from 1/2" was made to help the 302's become more competitive at a height that would help prevent motors from cooking.

[Team B&H]

I stand by my position that the SORC has done NOTHING for the 302 to help give it an advantage over the 102 in CSH. Every change they have cooked up for "safety" has been done to both motors equally. They dropped both motors to 1/2 inch from level and then dropped both to 3/4 inch later. Then they allowed bluprinting of cylinder heads to let everyone get to minimum CC but they allowed that for both motors. Now if they would have allowed only the trick blueprinting of the 302 heads or set the 102 height at 1 inch or added 20 pounds to a CSH with a 102 or allowed dry towers on the 302, I wouldn't argue, but they have done absolutely nothing unique to the 302 to give it any performance advantage a new motor should have. Montoya sits with a barn full of motors because most guys are still looking to build or find the ultimate 102. They worry about helping the sidewinder contingent to theoretically blanket the Stock racing field with their motors but won't do anything to help Ricky recoup his investment.

Perrman did win twice so the record is 11 Nationals wins for the 102 since the 302 was approved and 2 for the 302 in CSH. That's competitive? Records- have any been set with a 302 in CSH? Those commissioners have been doing a fine job getting the available engine to be the choice not just new cannon-fodder for the best of the 102 contingent, haven't they?

[drbyrne55]

I stand by my position that the SORC has done NOTHING for the 302 to help give it an advantage over the 102 in CSH. Every change they have cooked up for "safety" has been done to both motors equally. They dropped both motors to 1/2 inch from level and then dropped both to 3/4 inch later. Then they allowed bluprinting of cylinder heads to let everyone get to minimum CC but they allowed that for both motors. Now if they would have allowed only the trick blueprinting of the 302 heads or set the 102 height at 1 inch or added 20 pounds to a CSH with a 102 or allowed dry towers on the 302, I wouldn't argue, but they have done absolutely nothing unique to the 302 to give it any performance advantage a new motor should have. Montoya sits with a barn full of motors because most guys are still looking to build or find the ultimate 102. They worry about helping the sidewinder contingent to theoretically blanket the Stock racing field with their motors but won't do anything to help Ricky recoup his investment.

Perrman did win twice so the record is 11 Nationals wins for the 102 since the 302 was approved and 2 for the 302 in CSH. That's competitive? Records- have any been set with a 302 in CSH? Those commissioners have been doing a fine job getting the available engine to be the choice not just new cannon-fodder for the best of the 102 contingent, haven't they?

How about allowing ANY propeller without limiting blade numbers in CSH on the 302 ONLY. It may be no advantage at all but something for the 302 and not the 102?

C. STOCK OUTBOARD CLASSES
An outboard motor is defined as a complete combustion power and propulsion unit that can be attached to a boat and which can be lifted bodily by
human power from the hull as one unit. Batteries used for ignition and starting, tachometer, throttle control and steering arrangements are excepted.
Only one motor shall be used on a hull. There shall be only one propeller of three (3) blades or less.

[Racerkyle20]

And if my memory is correct, it was Billy Allen who won the first OSY Nats with a 302 back in 2005.

R-19

AH but i think you need to remember 3 years ealier....J Michael Kelly OSY champ with a 302 in 2002.