2010 Stock Class/Engine Structure

[pav225]

Question on Yamato motors....

Why would the SORC, and racers, ever consider removing a Yamato motor from a class?

Speaking from experience, they have been the most reliable and least expensive motors in APBA for the last 25+ years. These are both attributes that new racers tend to find appealing.

- Mike Pavlick

[Nilsen Racing]

Why would the SORC, and racers, ever consider removing a Yamato motor from a class?

Speaking from experience, they have been the most reliable and least expensive motors in APBA for the last 25+ years. These are both attributes that new racers tend to find appealing.

- Mike Pavlick

Ditto. Couldn't agree with you more Mike.

Jim

[Matt Dagostino]

Bingo.................

Why would the SORC, and racers, ever consider removing a Yamato motor from a class?

Speaking from experience, they have been the most reliable and least expensive motors in APBA for the last 25+ years. These are both attributes that new racers tend to find appealing.

- Mike Pavlick

I knew i liked this guy for some reason!! With a huge inventory of 302 engines available to purchase new(ok....reconditioned) and a viable parts and dealer network in place, continuing to support the AFFORDABLE Yamato program is high on my to do list!!

Stay tuned!

[Tim Weber]

I just read where unemployment just hit 10.2% nationally. I know its' way higher in parts of region 6 and 7.

Instead of talking about eliminating motors, we should embrace how to keep who and what we have on the water for the time being. Sure bring the Sidewinder in.

Here in my opinion is where it gets tricky. You can't have the Sidewinder overnight dominate their classes. Most of us do not have the means RIGHT
NOW to upgrade. Do we want to discourage drivers with older equipment by making what they have obsolete overnight?

The 25ssr comment was pretty good about Hearns and Rhodes. It is demoralizing to go into a race and know you are racing for 3rd. Sure things happen in race, gun jumpers, wrecks etc. The law of averages says the fastest wins.

Sure a 1 motor per class structure is the ultimate goal. I just don't think now is the time. I think we are going to have to continue to tweek things with weight, restrictor plates etc for the near future.

Tim

[drbyrne55]

Why would the SORC, and racers, ever consider removing a Yamato motor from a class?

Speaking from experience, they have been the most reliable and least expensive motors in APBA for the last 25+ years. These are both attributes that new racers tend to find appealing.

- Mike Pavlick

Exactly why we would like to see the 302 stay in 20SSH and 25SSR.

[Big Don]

I knew i liked this guy for some reason!!
Stay tuned!

Me too I just was not sure why.

[Big Don]

First let me say I do support new engines and the Sidewinder project. I believe their team is doing a great job bringing a motor to production with 1/100 of the staff that an outboard manufacturer would require. My concern is over the implementation plan and how if will affect our current and future members. I may sound like I don’t support the SideWinder when I get done, but hopefully I will get the correct message across.

After 40 years of racing and a family history that would amount to hundreds of years of racing history....What I worry about is…
We are infusing new engines in three classes at the same time. We have seen the challenges of implementing 1 new motor into 1 class at a time in our recent history.
We are talking about not allowing any more replacement parts on the 102 so a major change to a 4th class which is also our biggest class. Why eliminate a motor when it will negatively impact 60-70% of one of APBA's largest class??
We took the Mercury out of the A class. Why not allow families the opportunity to buy one motor and race it for years???

I really support the idea of new motors, and it does need to happen, but shouldn't it happen at a slower pace? All these changes have left a lot of racers feeling very uneasy and confused as to what they are going to do. I think this is evidence by many of the comments on HR and people's reluctance to buy/sell equipment over the last year/s.

Can some of us afford a 4500.00 engine? Sure we can, but there are a lot of current stock racers that can’t. The majority of our racers are true hobbyist. APBA data shows that around 75% of the racers only go 1 to 5 weekends a year. So if they could afford a new 4500.00 engine can they also afford a new 4500.00 boat? Would they? And who would buy their old boat to free up money to purchase new equipment? Yes maybe ASR & ASH can use the same boat with some modifications. Will the 20 Sidewinder work on a current 20 boat? Talking to some boat builders, I'm fairly certain that a new boat will be required. So do those racers have to spend 9000.00 to be competitive? And, what is the net benefit to the sport? You now have the same number (or less) people who now have very expensive rigs, still going the same speed, racing the same people (or less), and getting the same amount of laps over the weekend.

I know it's an inexpensive form of racing compared to other racing venues. I know the Mercury is 3500.00+ by the time you’re done. I know new people that look at our sport have said 4500.00 is not bad. But I also know that I have talked to a lot of potential new racers that think at 2000.00 for a used Yamato is too much when you look at what you get for it. 6 laps a day that’s it? I think Mr. Reed was on to something with more time on the water. Less classes, 3 or 4 heats…

We should fully support the SideWinder and try to grow the B class. It's a great motor and should be recommended to new drivers if they are of the right weight and have the money to spend. For other new drivers, we need to keep our options open with OMC motors and Yamatos so that a new racer can buy a rig for $2000 and get started. Once they get hooked, they can choose to add another class and buy a new motor.

I think we should have given Sidewinder one class at this time. Let that class grow and become stable. Let the races that may race two or three of the classes that are being impacted to slowly change and get a financial hold on the changes. I know we have the steering committee but do we really have a marketing strategy? Did we do any market research to come up with where we are heading? Does this strategy fit the needs of our customers (current and new racers)???

Greg Lyons was correct; the same people will be up front no matter what they are racing and what engine is on the back of their boat. But we also need people to race against and we may end up driving more people away then we gain.

And by the way for those of you that know me, know I never talk this much nor type this much. Took me a week to put this together…So if you respond it may take me awhile to get back to you, I’m worn out.

[Matt Dagostino]

Wow.............

First let me say I do support new engines and the Sidewinder project. I believe their team is doing a great job bringing a motor to production with 1/100 of the staff that an outboard manufacturer would require. My concern is over the implementation plan and how if will affect our current and future members. I may sound like I don’t support the SideWinder when I get done, but hopefully I will get the correct message across.

After 40 years of racing and a family history that would amount to hundreds of years of racing history....What I worry about is…
We are infusing new engines in three classes at the same time. We have seen the challenges of implementing 1 new motor into 1 class at a time in our recent history.
We are talking about not allowing any more replacement parts on the 102 so a major change to a 4th class which is also our biggest class. Why eliminate a motor when it will negatively impact 60-70% of one of APBA's largest class??
We took the Mercury out of the A class. Why not allow families the opportunity to buy one motor and race it for years???

I really support the idea of new motors, and it does need to happen, but shouldn't it happen at a slower pace? All these changes have left a lot of racers feeling very uneasy and confused as to what they are going to do. I think this is evidence by many of the comments on HR and people's reluctance to buy/sell equipment over the last year/s.

Can some of us afford a 4500.00 engine? Sure we can, but there are a lot of current stock racers that can’t. The majority of our racers are true hobbyist. APBA data shows that around 75% of the racers only go 1 to 5 weekends a year. So if they could afford a new 4500.00 engine can they also afford a new 4500.00 boat? Would they? And who would buy their old boat to free up money to purchase new equipment? Yes maybe ASR & ASH can use the same boat with some modifications. Will the 20 Sidewinder work on a current 20 boat? Talking to some boat builders, I'm fairly certain that a new boat will be required. So do those racers have to spend 9000.00 to be competitive? And, what is the net benefit to the sport? You now have the same number (or less) people who now have very expensive rigs, still going the same speed, racing the same people (or less), and getting the same amount of laps over the weekend.

I know it's an inexpensive form of racing compared to other racing venues. I know the Mercury is 3500.00+ by the time you’re done. I know new people that look at our sport have said 4500.00 is not bad. But I also know that I have talked to a lot of potential new racers that think at 2000.00 for a used Yamato is too much when you look at what you get for it. 6 laps a day that’s it? I think Mr. Reed was on to something with more time on the water. Less classes, 3 or 4 heats…

We should fully support the SideWinder and try to grow the B class. It's a great motor and should be recommended to new drivers if they are of the right weight and have the money to spend. For other new drivers, we need to keep our options open with OMC motors and Yamatos so that a new racer can buy a rig for $2000 and get started. Once they get hooked, they can choose to add another class and buy a new motor.

I think we should have given Sidewinder one class at this time. Let that class grow and become stable. Let the races that may race two or three of the classes that are being impacted to slowly change and get a financial hold on the changes. I know we have the steering committee but do we really have a marketing strategy? Did we do any market research to come up with where we are heading? Does this strategy fit the needs of our customers (current and new racers)???

Greg Lyons was correct; the same people will be up front no matter what they are racing and what engine is on the back of their boat. But we also need people to race against and we may end up driving more people away then we gain.

And by the way for those of you that know me, know I never talk this much nor type this much. Took me a week to put this together…So if you respond it may take me awhile to get back to you, I’m worn out.

Don
Didn't know you could type so much! I have changed my mind!! I am withdrawing Troy's name for Stock Chairman and writing in you! I know if you are appointed we will all eat well and maybe i can work you over to figure out how to catch up to Donny and Pavlick in 20ssh!

[14J]

Don
Didn't know you could type so much! I have changed my mind!! I am withdrawing Troy's name for Stock Chairman and writing in you! I know if you are appointed we will all eat well and maybe i can work you over to figure out how to catch up to Donny and Pavlick in 20ssh!

Matt-

Have you seen what strippers from WI look like, you may want to reevaluate what I have to offer. Although I do hear they have good cheese.

[14J]

The heck with it, I have (3) Merc 30h's in the basement, where can I run them? This is really the most inexpensive way for me to participate. I can't afford anything else.

Thank you in advance for your help.

[14J]

Why would the SORC, and racers, ever consider removing a Yamato motor from a class?

Speaking from experience, they have been the most reliable and least expensive motors in APBA for the last 25+ years. These are both attributes that new racers tend to find appealing.

- Mike Pavlick

90% of me doesn't disagree. What was the need for a restricted 102 in the 25SSR class? Is there still a need?

Not directed at Mike:

Save your breath people, I know you’re going to tell me what's the harm. I’ve heard it before.
You don’t have to agree with me and maybe I'm just plain crazy but I don't think this class needs (4) motor configurations: Restricted 102, Restricted 302, Merc, Sidewinder

[14J]

We are talking about not allowing any more replacement parts on the 102 ........

My only concern here is the new guy. I'd rather see new money go towards the available 302. I'd hate for that person to spend money and quickly learn that they need to scavenge around for essential parts. I know there’s other ways to accomplish this.

[Cameraboy]

the uphill battle

So, as a first generation racer, if I apply logic (yes, I know that is a flaw in the entire argument) to Stock Outboard racing, the only benefit I come up I come up with is the continued company of folks like those commenting on this thread - whom I like and respect (if I know them) and at least respect (if I haven't yet had the pleasure). Seeing all of Dave Trisko’s outboard stuff for sale brought this to a head for me. At least Dave’s apparently going to stay in boat racing.

It's a pain in the butt chasing down parts, builders, and good advice - it gets even harder if you show any success, because now you are competition. Have your work done local, or send it to the certified smart guy back East? Who can you really trust when your sources for everything are people who want to beat you?

You have to deal with the nut behind the wheel if you don't drive yourself (or if you do, but that's another issue). You have to travel long distances and deal with race days that drag late enough on Sundays to guarantee Monday is going to suck at work. All of this with the understanding of what Greg Lyons says is correct - you're facing an uphill battle to win.

And if wired as a volunteering-type or one who has a need to organize the disorganized, you'll be cheerfully abused. You'll be wanted as a club official, race director, etc. So will your wife and driver. Once you're counted on, your conscience doesn't allow you to just walk away. It makes it hard to focus on what the point is – racing, and the uphill battle.

What about the 9-5 that helps pay for all of this? That's another distraction, the job and the money. Yeah, $9,000 is a lot of money for a new Sidewinder and a new boat in 20ss. But when you have to compete with folks buying new boats, a dozen props, and multiple motor refreshes every year, you can spend about as much with current stuff in the uphill battle.

There are the ever changing rules. This set up is now illegal, blah, blah, blah. That motor will be obsolete, no more parts – wait they just approved non-OEM parts, so it’s the one to buy. Let's add weight, let's change the age - no let's lower the weight. Slow this motor down, speed that one up. There’s a new motor – wait, it’s too slow/too fast, it’s not fair. Hey, new set of commissioners, new agenda – let’s change it again. That's the moving, uneven target that makes the uphill battle steeper.

But what I'm really talking about is those of us who aren't going to be on the podium unless one of the stars stubs their toe. You want to keep beating our head against that wall to be ready for that chance, but at some point the uphill battle gets to be too much and you move on. As Scott Reed noted in another post, we see lot's of new faces, but our numbers remain the same.

It's not a motor issue, it's a culture issue.

There seems to be a loose consensus that things need to be done better in Stock, but for enough of participants the status quo is so comfortable they don’t want to make changes. For those who aren’t comfortable, the choice seems to be suck it up, or walk. Without a strong family tie to the sport, which are they likely to do in an age where there are many choices for one’s limited disposable income?

I’ve written too much, because I’ve lost track of the place where I identified the fun part. Beer and strippers, right?

[bill hoctor]

Stock??!!

THIS POST IS AS GOOD, IF NOT BETTER THAN GREG'S!!!!!!!!!!Bill ex racer,ref, announcer,timer, scorer, pit stooge, and now patrol boat driver...see you all at Ocoee.........

[Matt Dagostino]

Bill..............

THIS POST IS AS GOOD, IF NOT BETTER THAN GREG'S!!!!!!!!!!Bill ex racer,ref, announcer,timer, scorer, pit stooge, and now patrol boat driver...see you all at Ocoee.........

You forgot to ad your one hell of a nice guy toooo. Bennett asked me to ad that!

Have a nice weekend!!