Sidewinders

[laddies]

Last week end at Top of Michigan Marathon thought I would see the new A engine for next year and the B Sidewinders where were they?

[DOUGWELLINGS]

side winders

I received my "B" at the nationals, with help I had the motor timed and broke in at Kentucky, I would of like to seen a little more top speed but I thought the first day went well. The motor needs tweeking but I'm feel this motor can compete.

[Bunker hill]

So....

Unless you are an acomplished mechanic, one with several years of experience in "Stock" outboard racing, or with "HELP" you might have difficulties getting your "New" sidewinder to be more than "Feel" competitive????
WOW!!!

[hydroracer25]

Really?

Unless you are an acomplished mechanic, one with several years of experience in "Stock" outboard racing, or with "HELP" you might have difficulties getting your "New" sidewinder to be more than "Feel" competitive????
WOW!!!

Bunker,
It seems you read a little too much into what Doug posted and made some bad assumptions. First off, the sidewinder is a solid little engine and like any engine introduced it will take some time before they figure everything out (ie. propping, set up, boats....).

Right now it is competitive in the B class, but not going to beat a top notch "Hot Rod". This is where some decisions will have to be made by the SORC or manufacturer (or both) to determine what can be done to level the playing field.

For the record, Doug is a first year racer with a few racer under his belt. The engine was broke in, timed and raced without being an "accomplished mechanic".

Mark

[racer3j]

I believe you don't have to be an " accomplished Mechanic" it is really quite simple to get the motor running good, one solid day of testing and the motor can run with the best hot rods in the country.

[Steve Wilde]

Sidewinder A

I have raced borrowed Sidewinders at two regattas so far this year and have found both engines to be a joy. The engine I borrowed from Dan Schwartz at Oroville had never been run, it started first pull on the cart. (Sounds like a lawn mower commercial). I won the race, but I suspect that my main competition Troy, Tony, and Jean were not in top form. I ran Dan's older Sidewinder at Copperopolis and found it to be just as docile as the Oroville engine. I now have my own Sidewinder, it will be interesting when Tony, Jean, and I take on Troy and Lauren at our late season races. Stay tuned.
Steve Wilde

[jeff55v]

Last week end at Top of Michigan Marathon thought I would see the new A engine for next year and the B Sidewinders where were they?

I know of one sidewinder owner who would love to come and race the Top O'! This was not the year for him to make it happen however. He told me he will try to make it happen in 2010. I hope he does.

[B Walker]

Unless you are an acomplished mechanic, one with several years of experience in "Stock" outboard racing, or with "HELP" you might have difficulties getting your "New" sidewinder to be more than "Feel" competitive????
WOW!!!

If you have something you want to say......just say it allready.

This is a great forum to ask questions and find out whats going on.

Constructive criticism is allways appreciated.

Want to try to re-phrase your question?

BW

[steve smith 150m]

Would anyone out there that has a 20 ci Sidewinder let us run it on our 25ssr marathon boat at Big Rapids this September? We have a typical marathon rig, a 12' DeSilva which we run a soon to be obsolete 302 on. I have a decent driver who should be competitive. What transom height will we need and how deep do we run it. Also what prop would be recomended? We are willing to test if you have the time ... Thanks

[Gunjumper]

For the record...

I have run Sidewinders many times in the past two years, most recently at the Nationals in Grass Lake. In the first elimination heat of BSR, I started with everyone (legal I might add, don't read into my screen name.) and was the first boat to the first turn, Cooper (the eventual champ of the class) and Jessie Swain were on my heels, but I BEAT them to the turn. We were down on some rpms coming out of the turn, but once straightened up I ran deck to deck with Coop and Jessie for 3 more laps. Davey Hemp, another very competitive BSR Hot Rod guy, was in 4th that whole heat and I stayed solidly in 3rd. The second heat was pretty much the same, running a solid 4th, staying ahead of the remaining 5 Hot Rods and qualifying the Sidewinder into the finals. I came out of the first heat of the finals with a 4th, not bad for the Nationals! We were looking for some more top end and made a prop change for the second heat, using a large ASR wheel proved to be not a wise choice, the back end of the boat came around on me in the second turn and I went out on my head. Pre spinout I was running in the top 5. The motor was dryed out and back in the water with a test wheel within a half an hour using only a plug wrench and some clean gas, no problems or broken parts. The flip was completely driver error and in no way caused by the Sidewinder. I am disappointed that I couldn't put together a podium finish for the Sidewinder factory, but I believe we showed that the 15SS will run solidly in the top 5 on a National level with the best of the best, how much more parity do you want than that?! Ironically the same motor was dumped in BSH at the Nationals, so the thing was dryed out twice in the same week and ran competitivly, talk about being hard on an engine! I guess Racing Outboards should pick some better drivers... Since the Nationals, I went testing with the Runnes' and the Sidewinders. I will not say numbers but in under two hours for each we had both the A and the 15 way up on RPMs across the torque curve and more miles an hour as well. Why didn't we go testing before the Nationals?! We accomplished this with a few jets and a flat head screwdriver, no special tools or 'advanced mechanical ability', we never even changed a prop or setup. This shows that some time on the lake and detailed notes can gain you speed and power with the Sidewinder that you currently own/plan to purchase. You can't say "you were running the Runnes' personal factory prepped motor" because nothing was different from what is available to the public, just common tuning and trial and error. We accomplished these gains using a large ASR wheel, nothing special or unobtainable from Dewald/Bennett/France. Nothing tweaked on the motor the day of testing was beyond my mechanical ability, and I am no "accomplished" mechanic by any means... I understand the hesitation towards the new Sidewinder, they are pricey and nobody likes change, but I can promise you one thing, if you want to own a motor with full factory support that is produced by racers for racers that starts in the water and has a full line of parts available, this motor is for you. A need to "feel more competitive" was stated earlier by 'Bunker', short of my driving mishap at the Nationals, the Sidewinder 15 ran top five through the qualifying heats and the finals with the top BSR Hot Rods in the country and I can attenst to it getting even faster since the Nat's, so how much more competitive do you want without even prop/setup testing? These motors have come so far already and show so much potential for the future, keep the negative posts coming, we'll be at the river testing and getting even faster. Greg Lyons 1US

[3rd Chance]

Point Team Sidewinder

I've never seen Greg write so much.........

[DougMc]

Unless you are an acomplished mechanic, one with several years of experience in "Stock" outboard racing, or with "HELP" you might have difficulties getting your "New" sidewinder to be more than "Feel" competitive????
WOW!!!

I've seen the Sidewinders run a number of times testing at the owner's lake. I did not drive one, but did watch and tested my CSH and 20SSH in between the times when they were on the lake.

I can tell you that it seemed tougher, at least for me, to dial in my carb or to time on a Yamato 80 or 102 that day than it did for the guys working with the Sidewinder.

I'm a desk jockey and don't have much experience working on my own motors. I'm sure I could easily work on a Sidewinder after looking at it and can see one in my future for sure. Not to mention that it looked very, very light compared to the 102 for sure.

The OMC A and Merc 15 look tough to work on, and I'm never even going to attempt a Rossi other than helping to put them in the water and helping to launch.

As far as expense, I can tell you that if someone wants to run up front in say CSH they will be putting in much more money than most will admit. You just don't go out and spend $1,500 on a 102 or $2,300 on a 302. The power heads need to be blue printed, gear foot reworked, carbs rebuilt, rods and cranks straightened, heads milled and more. After all is said and done any front running CSH will have over $3,000 in a 102/302 for sure - unless you own your own machines to do the work.

If it is true, and it seems to be, that all the blueprinting on the Sidewinder is done before it is shipped to you, I appalud that. That means it is just a question of setting up and dialing in your rig. Even with the Yamatos it took me about two seasons go get everything dialed in right. Every thing did not just click after my checks cleared.

I have spent hours and days at the lake with some savvy people and by myself many times trying different set ups and trying to dial in the Yamato. I found at least 1-2 mph in my testing of set ups. Anyone with a Yamato or Sidewinder or OMC or Merc shouldn't expect to nail the rig set up out of the box. But you do get a leg up with the new Sidewinder in that you don't have to tear down your new motor, ship the powerhead to TJ, Davie Jones or Davids, ship the gear foot to Cronk, etc, etc, etc. With the Sidewinder, you know that stuff is already done for you with no extra money out of your pocket. All you do is go to the lake and test, test, test. You do still need to have Dewald, Sidor or Pinner on speed dial though as you do with any motor.

So yes, WOW to the Sidewinder for being so simple to use out of the box. This is the closest kneeldown boat racing will get to plug and play probably in our racing lifetimes.

[Dew1us]

I've never seen Greg write so much.........

I didn't know he could write that much...

[bill boyes]

Dan Schwartz Had a "A" Sidewinder at Havasu or Parker. Do not Remember maybe both. He could not get it to run worth a darn. First impressions can be Lasting impressions. At the Oroville race Steve Wilde and Dan again could not get the motor to run very well at all.They swapped Carbs from another motor and played with the advance to no avail. They then changed the motor. Had the same problem with other motor. Changed the squeeze bulb. Problem solved. Was not a motor problem at all. Both motors run great. I may buy a 20cubic inch.

[Tom10W]

Safety First

I would like to bring up another topic of discussion on the Sidewinder after reading Greg’s loquacious post that the Sidewinder got wet twice.. I have raced the old Mercury A’s, B’s, 25’s, Champion Hot Rods and most recently the Y80 and the Y102 Yamato’s. The one thing I loved about the Yamato engines are the gear cases. Yes, they are big and bulky but you can drive them anywhere and through almost any type of water. My old 20H used to break loose all the way down the backstretch and I barrel rolled may times when the back came around in the corners. Now I watch young hard chargers like Donny Allen, AJ Jennings and all the West Coast boys drive the snot out of the Yamatos. You could never do that years ago. Yes there is now a height restriction but the Yamato skegs hold very well. I hope that the Sidewinder has a comparable gear case and skeg so the competition stays fierce and safe.

Tom Kargus