STOCK Proposals for National meeting.....

[Matt Dagostino]

Constructive............

What would help the case for the Mercury would be some actual data. How many races were actually run with the Merc configuration in A Stock?

And a Regional Breakdown.

What is happening in Region 3 maybe unique and compounded by the age restriction in NJ.

What would be constructive to start with would be our Stock Chairman refraining publically from taking insulting pop shots at existing APBA members that travel and support our sport. This forum should be used to kick around ideas and banter about our passion........boat racing!

Earl D. posted several positive comments above about the positives the Merc 15 serves in ASH/ASR Class in Stock Outboard. Since the Merc is an approved motor in Stock Outboard and is readily available through APBA and aftermarket sources(merc dealers, e-bay, craigslist) i would think the question should be why the interest in removing the motor from the class by certain Commish members whom obviously are behind this effort

Granted the Merc is currently not Nationally competitive with the 'fast' OMC's and really at this time pose no threat to overtake the OMC as the motor of choice in the class but in these tough economic times do we really want to be removing the motor from the class and eliminating entries in a already declining A Class.

In my days as a Commisioner and currently as a loley racing dad, i do not support classes with more than one motor in them! But in todays Stock Division we do not have 800 plus members anymore and i guess have to do whatever works.......J Classes are a perfect example. The OMC and Merc seem to be working in harmony. I know it still has some rough edges but it works and someday it would be nice to see only motor eventually be legal.

Messing with motors in classes is the most 'testy' political hot potato a Commission deals with. Eventually someone gets hurt but we try to minimize the pain for the overall good of the sport! Some of those moments came in the mid 80's with the OMC 15 and a few years later when the YAmato 102 replaced the Merc 30h. Those were monumental moves and were made only after the probationary motors(the OMC A and the Yamato 102)were proven, available and generally accepted by the majority of the existing membership!

I imagine the cards will be put on the table in Raleigh to see what is driving this proposal and no doubt the right decision will be made by our knowledgable leaders.............

Matt
APBA Member, Stock Outboard Cataglory

[drbyrne55]

The Pro Nationals have been held on the last Friday of July for as long as I can remember. The actual weekend does not start until August 1st, therefore the confusion on "the last weekend of July." No matter who screwed up, it needs to be clarified and safeguarded for future nationals to avoid this travesty. If the schedule and/or weather does not comply, there is a possibility that three defending National Champions are not able to attend Depue this year. (Depending on their choice of stock vs pro) Also, there are a lot of us from the Left Coast that will be making the choice, or scrambling big time to try and figure out how to get equipment and driver(s) to both! Ashley Rucker, Tony Lombardo, Kyle Bahl, John Peters, Kyle Lewis etc. Jim Nilsen runs Pro and Jon & Jamie run both! It's about 2100 miles from Seattle to Depue and another 300 to Grass Lake. There is usually a lot of teaming up on trailers, rental cars, hotels etc. It's not just a race schedule problem. I guess we will see what happens and try and make it work!

Originally Posted by CSH12M
The Stock Outbaord Nationals are July 25 through August 1 in Grass Lake, MI.

Driver meeting will be Monday July 27.

Thanks,
MHRA


Posted:
Oct 24th, 2008 posted by drbyrne55

"Safe to assume Pro Nationals will be July 22 - 25th 2009?"
Dan
__________________


I think many people tried to verify the dates. Having heard it was the last weekend ie July 24/25, I also tried several months ago to plan.

If attempting to run both sites, sealed engines may become the issue. We will plan on running separate engines/hydros and leave them on site to avoid the issue.

Mistakes happen ..... now we just need to find a solution within the scheduling which I'm sure is happening and will continue next week. I believe Stock powers could try to run elims in such a way these Kpro/OSY400 racers could make it to Depue

[Racerkyle20]

[I
I think many people tried to verify the dates. Having heard it was the last weekend ie July 24/25, I also tried several months ago to plan.

If attempting to run both sites, sealed engines may become the issue. We will plan on running separate engines/hydros and leave them on site to avoid the issue.

Mistakes happen ..... now we just need to find a solution within the scheduling which I'm sure is happening and will continue next week. I believe Stock powers could try to run elims in such a way these Kpro/OSY400 racers could make it to Depue

Dan- I would hope that the Stocks would be able to accomidate the people coming from Ill. That being said it probably won't be a problem. K-Pro and OSY are always run on the Friday of Depue Nationals. ALWAYS. So Motors should be able to go through inspection that day then possibly put back together the next. The pro's don't tear down the yamato like the stocks do either. Just something to think about.

[drbyrne55]

Dan- I would hope that the Stocks would be able to accomidate the people coming from Ill. That being said it probably won't be a problem. K-Pro and OSY are always run on the Friday of Depue Nationals. ALWAYS. So Motors should be able to go through inspection that day then possibly put back together the next. The pro's don't tear down the yamato like the stocks do either. Just something to think about.

Thx Kyle,
Elims for stock scheduled for Tuesday -Thursday? Osy elim (probably not needed?) generally Thursday? Finals Friday? Having a sealed motor from STOCK elmins then inspected/torn down by PRO inspection seems like a STOCK DQ. I would like to see Stock and Pro discuss this at the national meeting.

[Dancingbear1961]

Dan- I would hope that the Stocks would be able to accomidate the people coming from Ill. That being said it probably won't be a problem. K-Pro and OSY are always run on the Friday of Depue Nationals. ALWAYS. So Motors should be able to go through inspection that day then possibly put back together the next. The pro's don't tear down the yamato like the stocks do either. Just something to think about.

Hey Kyle,
It would be the other way around! You'd have to race in Michigan first and then haul a** down to Depue. If they ran K Pro & OSY on Sunday there would not be a problem for those drivers. The Men's Club probably would'nt go for that since they have a lot of spectators that come to see the faster stuff on the weekend, even though K Pro & OSY are two of the largest classes and put on a great show with minimal attrition! The problem, however, is not isolated with just those two classes. 125R & H, 175, 250, 350, Service, 1100R and maybe other, are all impacted. How do you choose which classes to run early at the stock due to the fact that so many drivers run a lot of different classes? I would imagine it will be a hot topic next week! LOL
Talk to ya soon!

[Racerkyle20]

Hey Kyle,
It would be the other way around! You'd have to race in Michigan first and then haul a** down to Depue. If they ran K Pro & OSY on Sunday there would not be a problem for those drivers. The Men's Club probably would'nt go for that since they have a lot of spectators that come to see the faster stuff on the weekend, even though K Pro & OSY are two of the largest classes and put on a great show with minimal attrition! The problem, however, is not isolated with just those two classes. 125R & H, 175, 250, 350, Service, 1100R and maybe other, are all impacted. How do you choose which classes to run early at the stock due to the fact that so many drivers run a lot of different classes? I would imagine it will be a hot topic next week! LOL
Talk to ya soon!

Well that would be true if the Pro's are July 31-Aug 2nd. But is that the Case? Joe Johnson seamed to think it is the weekend before, since that is the last full weekend of july...That's how I preceive the pro's traditional date of the nationals. If your preception of the Pro nats is true (and i hope it's not)...I will not be there since i run more Stock classes.

[Joe J]

Kyle:

Here is how it works. The first day of the Pro nationals at Depue is always the LAST Friday of July. It just happens this year that the Friday is the 31st of July.

Joe

Well that would be true if the Pro's are July 31-Aug 2nd. But is that the Case? Joe Johnson seamed to think it is the weekend before, since that is the last full weekend of july...That's how I preceive the pro's traditional date of the nationals. If your preception of the Pro nats is true (and i hope it's not)...I will not be there since i run more Stock classes.

[Racerkyle20]

Kyle:

Here is how it works. The first day of the Pro nationals at Depue is always the LAST Friday of July. It just happens this year that the Friday is the 31st of July.

Joe

Gotcha Joe. Well now it does sound like some people will have to make a choice. I don't want to make that choice, but since I run 3 stock classes and 1 (very over weight, lol) Pro class. Looks like i'm only going to MI this year...

[drbyrne55]

Hey Kyle,
It would be the other way around! You'd have to race in Michigan first and then haul a** down to Depue. If they ran K Pro & OSY on Sunday there would not be a problem for those drivers. The Men's Club probably would'nt go for that since they have a lot of spectators that come to see the faster stuff on the weekend, even though K Pro & OSY are two of the largest classes and put on a great show with minimal attrition! The problem, however, is not isolated with just those two classes. 125R & H, 175, 250, 350, Service, 1100R and maybe other, are all impacted. How do you choose which classes to run early at the stock due to the fact that so many drivers run a lot of different classes? I would imagine it will be a hot topic next week! LOL
Talk to ya soon!

New Thread .... Poll it

[csh2z]

The primary reasons for eliminating the Merc in the A classes are as follows:
1) We have a goal of getting back to one motor per class, as Stock Outboard should be.
2) We have a manufacturer currently building BRAND NEW MOTORS for SIX Stock Outboard classes and our future is directly tied to their success. We must support this effort. There has been a huge commitment made both by Racing Outboards and by the SORC. The opportunity is now and that door will not remain open without the full cooperation of all of us. We also are fully aware that some people are going to be angry and may even quit, but we have to have NEW motors available if we are to grow.
3) We do not want to misinform or disillusion new people that all three of these motors are equal. They are not. When somebody new comes into this sport and they buy equipment that is obselete or uncompetitive, 9 times out of 10 they will quit.

[HydroKyle93R]

OMC v Merc parity in AX should be looked at. it may be time to help the OMC be competitive again.

Separate would be making sure the Sidewinder is not instantly dominating in the A class.

How about reinstating the .700 restrictor plate instead of the .650 they have now??

[Kev43V]

How about reinstating the .700 restrictor plate instead of the .650 they have now??

No disrespect intended. But that is a J issue and should be discussed on a J thread

[drbyrne55]

The primary reasons for eliminating the Merc in the A classes are as follows:
1) We have a goal of getting back to one motor per class, as Stock Outboard should be.
2) We have a manufacturer currently building BRAND NEW MOTORS for SIX Stock Outboard classes and our future is directly tied to their success. We must support this effort. There has been a huge commitment made both by Racing Outboards and by the SORC. The opportunity is now and that door will not remain open without the full cooperation of all of us. We also are fully aware that some people are going to be angry and may even quit, but we have to have NEW motors available if we are to grow.
3) We do not want to misinform or disillusion new people that all three of these motors are equal. They are not. When somebody new comes into this sport and they buy equipment that is obselete or uncompetitive, 9 times out of 10 they will quit.

Six classes for RO LLC and one for Yamato 302; Counter-point, I believe Ric has enough stock for several years to come. Europe works well with 302s and I'm sure Obama will sign off on an EPA exemption if needed in 7 years I suspect Ric invested well over $???,000 to support APBA and would like 2 class support. Maybe think about letting the current model Yamato 302 (restricted) continue to race 20SSH/BSH with the sidewinder .... not the Y80. Me .. keep the Y80 too and have a greatly supported B class

[Tim Weber]

John,

Ok, lets' eliminate motors from classes but before we do, let's make sure there are motors to pick up the slack. We have a put an awful lot future plans based on the sidewinder which is fine. How many sidewinders have been sold? I really don't know. Have enough been sold to make a race yet?

The only class I can comment on is 25ssr and I run it with a Yamato. I think this is going to be re-named " BSR " ? There is a proposal to eliminate the Yamato from the class with only the 20CI sidewinder and 25xs merc as legal.
Is there a viable class without the Yamatos right now? Are there any 20 ci sidewinders readily available? Are we going to a bottom fin only on BSR? When will we kill the merc? I don't disagree with with the one motor deal. It's probably the best way to go.

My point is, its fine to move on with new stuff. Let's just make sure we don't move so rapidly we mess things up and kill the particiption of a class until the manufacturers and racers are on the same page.

Tim

[reed28n]

Matt Matt Matt

What would be constructive to start with would be our Stock Chairman refraining publically from taking insulting pop shots at existing APBA members that travel and support our sport. This forum should be used to kick around ideas and banter about our passion........boat racing!

I am glad to see that you are taking the high road Matt. This forum is also to have a little fun. You are very much my senior and your age, experience and sensitivity will be considered in all of my future posts.

All of the playground insults aside.... I repsectfully disagree with George and you on this subject. His points have merrit but so do the Commissioners and members that have asked for this discussion at the national meeting.

Removing the Merc from the A class does not limit peoples options.

A small driver can purchase a merc for J and move into AXS while a larger young driver can look at the OMC for J and move to A Stock.

And i do think that it would clear up any misconceptions on either side of the issue if there was some participation data. I believe the mercury in the A class is isolated to one region(Region 3), which impacted by NJ laws and I also believe that no one ran the mercury in ASR.

Lastly, Please keep in mind that these changes would not effect the 2009 Racing Season. Changes outside of Safety would go into effect Nov 1, 2009 which is the 2010 Racing Season