STOCK Proposals for National meeting.....

[bill boyes]

Also remember the the OMC owners voted not to slow the motor down a little for parity with the Merc. If another vote was taken today I I believe the vote would be the same.

[jeff55v]

The AXS class will not go away and is managed by the J commission so unless the SORC wants to eliminate A then there is no further discussion needed.

AXS Dad

There seems to be a general misconception about what the class was meant to be, as opposed to what it has become.

All good points but remember; the AXS class came about because the Merc 15 was too slow to compete in A against the OMC and a class formed to keep the motor alive.

Geez, I just asked a question. I did not make a suggestion.
Perhaps (and this IS a suggestion) we should rename the class from AXS to JXS. That would reduce general misconceptions about the class by folks like me.

[Jim Sweeney]

Numbers

As a follow up to my previous post I thought I would post some numbers to support my comments.
If you look at class by class participation throughout 2008 and count the number of drivers that raced at least ten times during the 2008 season (drivers who really supported their class) here is the break down of drivers who had ten or more races in their class.

CSH had 39
20SSH had 27.
ASH had 27.
ASXH had 25. (J class catigory)
CSR had 20.
DSH had 16.
ASR had 16.
AXSR had 12. (J class catigory)
BSR had 8.
BSH had 8
25SSH had 7
25SSR had 4
DSR had 0.

With these numbers, one would have to conclude that AX (although a J class) is one of our strongest classes and considering that ASH and ASR are also strong, that the two classes can co-exits and accually accent each other.
WIth dwindling numbers, we as an organization better think of a way to keep our young and intermediate drivers interested, they are the ones that will keep our sport alive for future generations.

Some people might think that eliminating or combining the AX classes would help our sport. But wouldn't it be like saying that tripple A baseball shouldn't exits because we have major league baseball. I don't understand that type of thinking!

Jim

[Cameraboy]

I don't think the issue is getting rid of AXS. The issue in my mind is that A has gotten too fast to be safe at the upper speed ranges we are seeing. I think folks are more comfortable at AXS speed, which is why it is such a popular class. Folks have voted with their feet to go to AXS. We need to respect that, and recognize it for what it is.

A does not need to be the class that runs in the upper 50 mph range - we have 15ss (aka B) to handle that speed range. If A is running at a safer speed, then it becomes a viable option on the ladder of stock classes for those that don't want to run on the ragged edge yet still want to compete.

However, if one slowed A down, it may require slowing AXS down slightly to keep a reasonable speed spread between J, AXS, and A. This strategy obviously requires that the Stock and J commissions work together, but given the quality of the commissioners and their committment to the sport, I am confident that they could work it out.

A big help is that we now have the equipment to make these classes work in harmony - the OMC, Merc, and Sidewinder.

[Skoontz]

Why not just make a few quick changes to the Merc (ask the factory if they might be able to in order to keep it"stock" and speed the Merc up.....

There is too much slowing of the OMC going on.


"Is it possible the "J" Class is too fast now for 9 yr.olds to start off? I would like to see them around 35 mph. As they get older or heavier more up to AX, I was a big boned kid that had to move up to ASH years ago."


To slow down the J class, use stock shiftable type gearcases and aluminum props, and run them at 4.5" deep. That puts you in the 35MPH range. Raise them an inch or inch and a half, you have competitive J speeds.

Also, the larger propeller diameter helps compensate when the kids get heavier.

You have a much easier, cheaper and more accesable motor to get at that point.

[G Stillwill]

Bill we run racing gear cases becuse they are designed to take the abuse of racing. SHIFTER GEARCASE ARE NOT AND WOULD FAIL IN NO TIME PERIOD. They start jumping out of gear first of all and just what is needed going into the first turn with a group of boats someone get run over. Most everyone that has posted on here with wanting to make changes have nothing to do with the classes in the J Division or any one that runs in those classes. The J Division has figured out how to make the numbers increase every year something the stock Division cant figure out.This thread is for the stock division and no where did I see it included the J Division. It time to get your own house in order and not worry about trying to fix someone elses where there isnt anything broken. Great job J Divsion with all the hard work increasing the numbers of drivers.

[sam]

Bill we run racing gear cases becuse they are designed to take the abuse of racing. SHIFTER GEARCASE ARE NOT AND WOULD FAIL IN NO TIME PERIOD. They start jumping out of gear

This may be true, but I'd like to see evidence of it, such as the liability cases that have gone to court over such failures. A motor with that kind of reputation could put a company out of business

[G Stillwill]

Sam most fisherman dont use there motors for racing your post makes no sense at all and had nothing to do with the subject. Under normal condition the stock gear case is fine.

[Gunjumper]

I agree with George on all accounts. Slowing down YOUR child to be at a safe speed in J and AX is easily achievable as mentioned earlier. Sam...where did your post come from?! Who cares? We DON'T run shifter cases so again - who cares? As Jim posted, both A's and AX's are strong, the clases that are hurting are the ones that will be aided by the Sidewinder - B and 25. I think 09 will be a strong year for all classes. Major recent improvements in the Sidewinder will surely breathe new life into the weaker classes. GL

[reed28n]

New Motors

Bill we run racing gear cases becuse they are designed to take the abuse of racing. SHIFTER GEARCASE ARE NOT AND WOULD FAIL IN NO TIME PERIOD. They start jumping out of gear first of all and just what is needed going into the first turn with a group of boats someone get run over. Most everyone that has posted on here with wanting to make changes have nothing to do with the classes in the J Division or any one that runs in those classes. The J Division has figured out how to make the numbers increase every year something the stock Division cant figure out.This thread is for the stock division and no where did I see it included the J Division. It time to get your own house in order and not worry about trying to fix someone elses where there isnt anything broken. Great job J Divsion with all the hard work increasing the numbers of drivers.

First off Congratulations to George The J Category Up and Coming Driver of the Year. What brand of rings are those anyway????????

The reason people are missing with the AXS is the parity from MERC to Merc that can be achieved by having new motors. Something that the sidewinder will provide going forward.

In my opinion the J is too fast. Return the J Category to its original intent... Universal J to be raced in every category. If the AXS is not going to follow the same format and if you are not going to have an elidgibility restriction than the AXS does not belong in the J Category.

Combining the OMC and Merc does not need to happen as Jim Sweeney mentioned. The success of the Merc in the AXS is undeniable. It is marketed on the APBA brand. You can pick up the Propeller Mag and order one and you are ready to race. I believe that is why the C class is so popular also. We are close to having this idea expanded on to other classes. We need to get away from sending prospective drivers to a used equipment market to buy someone's second rate equipment and starting out handicapped. Few people even if they retire sell their best motor or their best prop so a new guy starts out slower. Our new equipment will resolve this scenerio and level the playing field.

How great would it be to have 12 boats all going the same speed and the race relies on your starting ability and driving at every local race.

Available motor's equals popular class!

[Skoontz]

Ok, lets back up a second.

I directed the suggestion of using stock cases only at the suggestion of slowing the motors down to 35MPH. I have also done extensive testing using the stock case on a 15 OMC, and, like it or not, it is a sensible solution to a number of recurrent problems that are fairly wide spread.

George:

I respect, admire and learn a great deal from you and the guys who have been in this game so long, but in this case, the case of stock gear case failures, I don't think it would be the case here.

Remember back in the day, we had a couple classes, family E, Sport E, Family J, Sport J, and all ran Merc/OMC factory cases. While at the races as a race fan I saw many Speedmaster failures, I never once saw a stock factory case failure, nor did I ever see one popping out of gear.

I know we are talking about a bigger and different motor here, but all one need do is disassemble a stock case and look at the parts. Time would be the true test of longevity, and i know with the attitudes of how many feel about stock cases, that time would never be allowed.

Again, no disrespect here, I only interjected the use of these cases to slow boats in JR classes and prevent further destruction of good engine torque which leads to frustration and lost interest by using restricter plates.

So, I suggest again...What would it take to make the Merc motor competitive with the OMC in A class, how much would that cost to do, and, would it not make more sense to allow that change, rather than continue destroying good OMC motors in classes?

[Kev43V]

I can see a lot of merit to putting an age limit on the points in AXS (17?). even if you allow older driver to participate for the boat time. It will help the club in intry fees. it would help the new older drivers with boat time. and it will not take points away from the J drivers "in training" for the adult classes.

The point being that adults should not be high points champ in a J class.
AND
Many new drivers that are adults, get needed boat time in AXS classes

[drbyrne55]

So, no curve balls coming in CSH, 20SSH or OSY400 @ the national meeting.

Are they proposing doing away with the reed stop measurement on the Yamato 302?

[reed28n]

Agenda

So, no curve balls coming in CSH, 20SSH or OSY400 @ the national meeting.

Are they doing anyway with the reed stop measurement on the Yamato 302?

Someone always seems to want to toy with the weight of CSH or 20SSH. Last year there was an agenda item proposing that the 20SSH weight be increased.

Please keep in mind that just because it is on the agenda does not mean that there will even be a dicussion about the topic. If someone fails to make a motion on an agenda item there is absolutely nothing done. As was the case with the 20SSH weight.

So when the agenda is out later today or tomorrow don't panic. Call your commissioner and express your opinion!

[drbyrne55]

Scott,
What do you know about the possible conflict of Stock and Pros being ran the same week in July/Aug ?

Thx