Mod Proposals for National Meeting...........

[mercguy]

rebutal..............

[QUOTE=meanred;119036]

1) I believe the number designation (250, 350, 500 ect) is a good idea. For a spectator it does make perfect sense, the smaller the number the the smaller the motor, the slower it goes. More importantly from a drivers standpoint it is audibly much easier to hear the difference between 250 and 350 than B, C or D. This is helpful at drivers meeting as well as during races to hear what class is next. This easily also audibly tells the difference between mod and stock.

2) Why would we wand to let a motor that was made in such limited quantities (202) and is no longer in production to race in a class that has new motors available (302)

3) The idea of allowing gearcases like the Yamato hatchet foot to be used in 350 and 500 mod is a horrible one. The current gearcase is very bulletproof and takes no maintenance to speak of to keep them working perfectly. The Hatchet foot is a far more streemlined gearcase who gears are not nearly as durrable. Even the shape of the case would obsolete all current big hub propellers and make current drivers who want to stay competive to spend money on a less durrable gear case and order a new batch of propellers.
I am not arguing this point to protect my current speed (or lack there of). I am sharing my viewpoint to protect two classes that are not having problems currently with lack of gearcase (you can buy a new 302 case and legally run it with an 80, 102, or a 302) We already own three of these amazing gear cases and own plenty of smaller hub four blade propellers that would in theory work great. By attempting to prevent this from going through I am only slowing myself down.

The class names makes sense to none racers. We all just have to suck it up learn to change. It was voted on 2 years ago and won by a large margin of MOD Drivers.

With the 302 available new why would we let 202 in 500cc Mod class is fine the way it is leave it alone.

Racing gearcases in the 350cc 500cc classes in a bad idea as John stated above.

As far a letting the Tohatsu in to the 750cc class is a bad bad idea there is no reason for this. Why would want to mess with out strongest class in MOD that seems to be growing every year. If there is a problem with enteries in some reigons drivers must try to get there buddies there to race.


I would like to see a rule freeze on all classes for 3 years and let all just race and have a good time.

Jim
7-M

1) most of the mod classes are based off the stock classes, which are still "letter based", so goes withuot saying mod should follow their roots, which makes it also easier for the "announcer" of the races to explain.

2) the Merc 30H has been way passed out of production, but is still allowed to race in Cmod (of which it should), so the 202 should be allowed also and allow those motors that have no where to race and have ended up on "cottage racer" boats..........put the motor back into racing (other than OSY), where it was designed for.

3) allowing the Yamato 80/102/302 gearcases to be used in other classes, makes it more affordable to race (Merc A/B/C units sell for upwards of $1500, which end up in the hands of collectors!). The suggestion is not just for the Yamato mod classes (B/C).

4) no class is ever to big (or strong)to allow more entrys and boats........

keep up the input, it is good to hear..............thanks everyone.

[Howie Nichols]

Not a popular idea but think about eliminating open megaphone pipes. Say by 2015, this can only open up racing possibilities for the MOD division....

[johnsonm50]

NBRA has had the open gearbox rule for yearsin the mod classes. Only exception is c mod where you are resticted to a 1 tooth off gear ratio. As far as we can tell no particular unit seems to have a performance advantage. With all styles and makes winning. Sure does open up a lot of options.
Art K

The OMC B1s could use more foot room.

[sam]

[QUOTE=meanred;119036]

1)
3) The idea of allowing gearcases like the Yamato hatchet foot to be used in 350 and 500 mod is a horrible one. The current gearcase is very bulletproof and takes no maintenance to speak of to keep them working perfectly. The Hatchet foot is a far more streemlined gearcase

But its legal to BUILD a hatchet shape from a std Yamato case ... at about the same price as a real hatchet

[STEVE FRENCH]

Not a popular idea but think about eliminating open megaphone pipes. Say by 2015, this can only open up racing possibilities for the MOD division....

Howie...I understand and respect yer think'n....especially in high populated areas.....but this would kill A-MOD/25MOD/D-MOD.....and a bunch of deflector piston motors in other classes.....
Just continue to put...."NO OPEN PIPES".....on yer sanctions ...and this is covered?

Are there any other 10-70? hp loop-charged fish'n motors that will perform with a chamber, that we could look at for A/B/25/C/D-MOD?
25xd-xs Merc....remember Del's attempt at this?
45 OMC.....how do they run with a chamber?
Yamaha??...10-30 hp
Tohatsu/Nissan???...10-30 hp

Will the deflector piston Sidewinder work with a chamber?....Any prototypes out there?

Glad to see ya this year Buddie....

19P

[Howie Nichols]

Steve,
I don't claim to understand the whole pipe thing and what works with what, but with the deflector piston motors if you put a closed pipe on what would it do? Would it just slow it down or would it kill the whole motor?

I understand putting No Open Pipes on circulars but is that fair to everyone? I remember lots of complaints when that was done in the past.

Correct me if I am worng but this year it seems like everything that was non-Mercury would run ok with closed pipes??? What can we do to get this fixed? I remember Gollers CMOD as a kid and it was by far the fastest thing around for years (and had closed wrap around pipes!)

Not trying to stir up anything just want to see the MOD's get their bang for the buck out there too. We have several sites in FL that would run MOD's if the noise were not an issue.

I enjoyed seeing you and all my old friends from the "kneel down" ranks this year, Becky and I are really looking forward to doing it again in 09, but I still won't give up my tunnel..........

[Fast Jack]

Meanred

Should your # 2 coment( could ) be taken to eliminate the 55h and the 44xs and make the Available Tohatsu the only legal motor? the other motors have been out of production for years.. this should stir the pot up.

[STEVE FRENCH]

[QUOTE=sam;119079]

But its legal to BUILD a hatchet shape from a std Yamato case ... at about the same price as a real hatchet

Sam, I think the issue here would be the r/s dimension of the pro foot.....at 1.80/1.85....the pro foot has gott'a cut thru the water faster.......can you even buy a new Pro foot today?....last I heard NLA ?.....with the number of 80/102/302 reworked foots now runn'n,..you might get this to ballot but would it pass...?

This would also leave the C-Merc on the beach/back of pack.....Granted the Merc is allowed the pro foot/any foot....but this has helped make them competative again.......


19P

[Ron Hill]

A View From An Old Man...

I don't really remember when I started calling my OLD MAN, "The Old Man" but I know I called him DADDY, to his face, until I was more than 45 years old....Point is, my family has a 4th generation boat racer who never knew her great grandfather. The Hills started racing in 1935...My father and I are both APBA Honor Squadron Members (The highest honor APBA has)....we go way back in boat racing...rich family traditions....

As I knock on the door of 65 years, being a boat racer basically all my life...Little has really changed, but then again much has changed....most rule changes appear to be self serving to the person who wanted them changed....

I feel a responsibility to make boat racing "BETTER"......frequently I see changes that make no sense, at least to me.....AND we frequently don't point out the GOOD THINGS IN BOAT RACING THAT WILL NEVER CHANGE and one good thing is the PEOPLE that race boats.....and the races themselves...

Because of my prop business, I'm basically a 24-7 boat racer.....I have a new lady in my life who was once a National Champion Ice Skater...She doesn't know rules, she doesn't know outboards from toilet seats.....BUT she loves the BOAT RACES...She and I bought a motorhome so we can really do boat racing right.....She went to one race and said, "We need a motorhome and BIG bar-b-que...." She has her 2009 calendar marked already!!!

Myself, I think by re naming classes allows people to FORSAKE...or THROW OUT all history. I was F Runabout 5 mile record holder....Today, I see some runabout with two in the boat called 1,100 CC...I ask myself....What is 1,100 CC in English??? When 1,100 CC started all HISTORY of F Runabout was gone....The internet can keep history alive....

We have Cracker Box inboards in Regions 10, 11 and 12. Cracker Box is the oldest class in APBA...A 40 year old boat can still compete and win....Motors change, boats chnge, a little...but they are still Cracker Boxes. They have a 50 year tradition....they have there own club. They have boats at every race....

"SPECTATORS" understand a 125 is smaller than a 250....Yea, but do spectators know a hydro from a runabout??? Vince Scully taught all of California how to watch and listen to baseball, as a result, any Dodger fan knows baseball because Vince taught us the game...Spectators or "FANS" can learn anything, but it is our JOB as boat racers to teach fans how to watch boat racing.....

On the 202 Yamato deal.....as I understand it, Ric Montoya is paying about $5,000 per year to the bank (interest) for motors he's bought...the 302 is a great MOD MOTOR and everything should be done to sell Yamato 302 motors......


On the HATCHET FOOT (gearcase deal)....Having spent since August trying to actually TOUCH a HATCH FOOT from Yamato with a 14:15 gear ratio or 1:1.........and failed. I'd think that maybe taking a hard look at what gearcases can be bought new and changing the rules some. Seems to me, having some "TRICK" gearcase that no one can get, isn't good for BUSINESS....


For runabout, those big sided ones are THE BOMB, meaning very cool...great sign boards...Runabout should have 12 inch high sides, and the fin should be on the bottom where it belongs....

I'm going boat racing no matter what rules...but let me tell you I did get "Fired Up" on a "D" Mod at Chowchilla and Whitney Point. I actually have five 44 blocks, cranks and rods....but after calling Howard Anderson, Jim McKean, Lonnie Morris, Mike Schmidt, Dave Mayer...Fred Hauenstein trying to find a hatchet gearcase....I decided that owning 4-45 SS boats, three Classic Outboards with 2.5 EFI Mercs, three J-AXS-A Hydros and two OMC A's, that maybe I don't really need a "D" Mod, especially, if they are going to call it 900 CC...Hell that would be a new class with no history...who wants to win a class that has no past????

See you at the races...I am going to build a few Mini GT's and one new Classic Outboard (Revloution is building a new 20 foot pickle fork....for Classic Outboard...Pat Bowamn has ordered one, I've ordered a ALL BLUE one...)...

[Danny Pigott]

Dmh

I may be old an live in the past, but as far as i am concerned today DMH is the greatest show in racing. There is nothing that sounds like it. Even if they can't run but in a few places. I have ran A stock to D stock, A mod to FEH , 250 to 500H, OPC SE TO MOD U. Most of the time if noise is a major problem the people don't want the race anyway. I guess real boat racing has gone with the 57 chevy with glass packs. No offence ment just my 2 cents.

[David Weaver]

No Dog in This Fight

But, 100 Years ago, 250cc PRO was called AOH. "They" changed the name and the world did not end. The spectators could relate well, because they had a 250cc dirt bike or a 250cc snow mobile, but none of them had a AOH dirt bike or an AOH snow mobile. SO, I am guessing that MOD can survive with class names based on actual displacements and that the average spectator will understand better the class name.

As far as I can tell, more engine choices are better than less. I do not understand why mod allows many, many modifications for some classes and limited modifications for others. But, if that is the members choice then great. But, I can see how a driver racing a small class (displacements) might like the same liberty as adriver racing a larger class.

Good luck and happy racing!!

[sam]

guessing that MOD can survive with class names based on actual displacements and that the average spectator will understand better the class name.

But the biggest motor allowed in 850 is about 1018cc's ... not 850.

When a spectator comes up and starts asking me questions about the motors and the class they get really confused when they find out that the class is called 850, my motor is bigger than 850 (some of them do the math real fast in their heads and figure out mine is bigger than 850 on their own) and still larger motors are allowed. Clearly, clarity is not the true explanation or result

[johnsonm50]

While I was spectating at the last Millville race A nice elderly woman asked me a few Qs. 1st was do the entrants get paid to run? I wasnt sure of the right answer but said they pay an entry fee, winners get some prize $ and their doing it for fun not making a living at it. [Hope that was close enough]. Then she asked if they buy or make their own boats & motors? I told her some buy, some build & some trading goes around. She seemed impressed with the performance but asked nothing about letters, numbers, classes & so on.

[Bill Huson]

I like the cc designation . . .

Less mystery to the casual spectator than letter designation. And we use letters to designate the home port of the driver. I have been asked why a "P" boat is running in a "C" class. Yes, it was befuddling at first to wrap one's head around the conversion from letter class to cc, but the spectators I talked with picked up on cc easily. No reason to confuse them by saying a certain motor isn't exactly 850cc. A stock is a 15ci/250cc class but there hasn't been a true 15ci/250cc engine in that class since the OMC was introduced.

[johnsonm50]

Less mystery to the casual spectator than letter designation. And we use letters to designate the home port of the driver. I have been asked why a "P" boat is running in a "C" class. Yes, it was befuddling at first to wrap one's head around the conversion from letter class to cc, but the spectators I talked with picked up on cc easily. No reason to confuse them by saying a certain motor isn't exactly 850cc. A stock is a 15ci/250cc class but there hasn't been a true 15ci/250cc engine in that class since the OMC was introduced.

Its also whats used in motorcycle racing.