APBA members it is time to get answers!!

[14-H]

[What's SeaTac about???].

Gene: This story is a very long one. The bottom line, however, is that it would have transformed the APBA into a non-membership-controlled organization. I have my own personal thoughts about the purposes for this. But the last time I put them on the internet, I was sued so I'm going to keep that to myself. I think if you do a search for "SeaTac" on this site, you can find some old threads that discuss this further.

[T Chance]

I was out of racing during the SeaTac era. But I found some interesting archive information on Offshoreonly.com about the lawsuits.

[26V]

I can understand your position Ed. And Thank You.
Don, that is about what I got out of the links that where posted here and the other info I found. Votes are sent, I only made 1 mistake by not doing a write in vote for Dean.
Thanks everyone for your imput. I believe I made a better choice with my votes then I would have with out it.

[bill boyes]

I believe Offshore was sold off to Michael Allwise and Unlimited to Gary Garbart
forgive the name mispells.

[hshawwpba]

Bill,
who sold off unlimiteds and offshore? I didn't see a mention of that in any of the other articals or communications I read.

Stay tuned I will post the entire plan for everyone to read so the current non informed posters on the plan won't need to keep giving you their non factual views.

R10 # 1487
Just PONDER 1 thing: The basis of the plan was to take the professional side and generate revenue that would be supporting the sportsman level of racing and allow business people to make the business dissions not self serving groups looking to benifit special intrest manority. Oh by the way APBA HAD 1 MIILION IN ASSEST before the new group took control, and is now in fiancal distress under leadership of the group that wanted the current concept of management.
As the saying goes " HOW IS THE CHANGE WORKING FOR YOU " ??

[hshawwpba]

Howard, this is what I struggle with along with the people that have emailed or called me.

You have yet to tell any of us on here what you really plan to do. Other than you think something is going on in the books. WTH does that mean?????? What does the other two that you are telling us to write in plan to do? You preach open communications but are not willing to share what you would do? Oh wait you did say, “ The point is not that I have any or all the anwers, due to the hidden agendas and lack of information nobody can tell what needs to be done at this point.” Come right out and say what you are implying. Are you saying that members of our past BOD and current BOD are profiting off the organization? Are you implying that money was taken? What hidden agenda??? Oh yea I guess the entire BOD is in on this and are all on the take. Has some of the other endeavors gone bad? Sure, they have. And I’m not referring to the Crowne contract we are all aware that’s out there. What are you implying is going on at our office? I’m not sure because you hide behind implications that stuff is going on…so what do you think is going on…be a man and say it.

I still don’t get why you and others are upset at what WE (the organization) are doing. The BOD did realize that membership/sanctions were decreasing, that insurance is out of control, you and others want them to do something, but when they do, your upset. I don’t get it. Has some of it not been what we all wanted. Sure, but that’s how things go. You should know that they are not all going to be popular decisions. I applaud our current BOD members for finally being forward thinking to know it’s the direction we needed to go to try and stop the declining membership, to improve efficiencies, to update our antiquated computer system, etc. How is this initiative not a good thing???? I realize it may be late and we should have done some of this years ago but that does not mean you don’t do it now because you didn’t do it in the past. Will I be mad if all we get is what we see on the APBA web site. Hell yea I will, but I have to trust what Crowne and the BOD are telling us we are going to get when they are done.

As for making the same mistake twice…be careful what you wish for…I’m positive you don’t know everything that went down during our organizations law suit in the past. Just like I don’t… But I do know that a judge didn’t like some of it either.

Who wrote this for you? I don't believe you really believe past and current members have and are not currently profitting from the current projects and insurance deal!! Here that music it is the flute palyer leading you down the path of no return--- keep the rose colored glasses on and enjoy the death march!

R10 # 1487

[hshawwpba]

This thread has been very interesting to read. And I have learned a lot more about the situation that occured just as I was starting into this great sport. But I still have one big gray/blank area that I would like someone to fill in. That area of knowledge is what did the SEA-TAC agreement consist of? Obveously after the judgement we became/remain a member driven organization. What was the the SEA-TAC going to make us?
If you don't want to post an answer hear please PM or email me. I realy would like this info.

I am glad you asked please see below it is your lucky day due to your posting everyone will be able to read the facts and know exactly what the plan was and why the judge made the decision he made. But then some of the OLD GANG did not want to give up the control they had and still have today! I wonder why?? $$$$ maybe???

Howard,

Tomorrow I will E-Mail you the whole plan.

It is actually will be quite good for the smart folks to read now - and say to themselves - what might have been.

The Naysayers speak of Sea-Tac as a bad thing it was not. I will also send you a summary of the judges findings in all the matters. Most importantly he found that Sea-Tac was properly passed by a consituted BOD's - the only problem that was made was that the subsequent election on Oct 31 - was not done in accordance with the standing by-laws.

[Big Don]

Howard, here is what I do know…

My father in the 70’s was sitting at a race with Paul Kalb. Don was telling Paul that he didn’t like the way things were going in APBA. Paul’s response was, if you don’t like it get involved…Don did. Now remember a lot of this was back when the average person had $30.00 phone bills in the 70’s & 80’s. You know how much our phone bill was. In the $100.00/$200.00 and even more, every month for as long as I can remember. That’s just one example of how much money our family put in, just like many others. It cost Don money to get involved, just like it does for all of us, by giving our time. Don has held almost every position possible in this organization. Did he and I always agree on things, NO, but that’s life. But to even suggest that the BOD is profiting off of this is insulting to everyone.

The BOD members do get some of their expense covered but it’s a small portion of what they give. I for one and do not have a problem with that. But they certainly are not profiting from it and their expenses are not covered 100% and you know this. By even suggesting that they all had hidden agendas is appalling to me. You should be ashamed for even suggesting it. Our family NEVER went on vacation because Don chose to put his time & money into this sport he loved so much, it cost him $1000.00’s every year to be involved. He went to every National meeting and Annual meeting for as long as I can remember.

So when I get emails from someone that hides behind a fake name asking what you are referring too and asking me if our family enjoyed the members money it REALLY PISSES me off. How dare you throw accusations out there making people think that. So if you have issues with specific people come right out and say it, call them out, quit betting around the bush and throw accusations out there making people wonder about everyone that has ever been involved. Stop throwing everyone that gave their life to this sport under the bus your are driving. It really is quite appalling. Be a man and put the names out there that you think profited off of the members so it stops making people wonder.

And who ever sent the email…you’re a spineless coward.

[mike ross]

Don that guy has had way to much happy candy!!!!!

[Dave M]

Run As A Business

I truly think that APBA should be ran as a business, for profit. I don't know much about Sea-Tac or the dirty politics involved in 2003. I do know it forever changed the course APBA has taken. And honestly, I don't believe much of what either party is posting. It is like a pissing match. He said/she said.

What is real fact and has been for 10 - 20 years now is APBA is being downsized. Something needs to change, you can't survive with the same old leadership styles. If APBA is truly a membership driven club, how come only a few members are in the drivers seat ?

Perception is a key to survival. If you don't fix this perception in your memberships eyes, and the publics eye, nothing will change. And for the record, having been involved in the politic side of APBA in the past, the VP's and Chairman, and commisioners are not compensated to cover all expenses. If they were, it was stealing.

One more point and I will stop. A ton of little things add up to one huge problem. So stop with all the rule changes that piss people off. That includes all your saftey stuff. What was in place ten years ago was very adequate. To alter boats, recertify this or that, get tossed for the wrong color on your cowling, or having a plug out of the cowl is stupid. There is nothing stock about stock outboard, so stop already. It is WAY past time for you to put the fun factor back into your races. Simplify it, don't complicate it. A lot of good proposals have been rejected in the last five years or so. The rules should have been frozen a long time ago.

[Gootz 142M]

Howard, here is what I do know…

My father in the 70’s was sitting at a race with Paul Kalb. Don was telling Paul that he didn’t like the way things were going in APBA. Paul’s response was, if you don’t like it get involved…Don did. Now remember a lot of this was back when the average person had $30.00 phone bills in the 70’s & 80’s. You know how much our phone bill was. In the $100.00/$200.00 and even more, every month for as long as I can remember. That’s just one example of how much money our family put in, just like many others. It cost Don money to get involved, just like it does for all of us, by giving our time. Don has held almost every position possible in this organization. Did he and I always agree on things, NO, but that’s life. But to even suggest that the BOD is profiting off of this is insulting to everyone.

The BOD members do get some of their expense covered but it’s a small portion of what they give. I for one and do not have a problem with that. But they certainly are not profiting from it and their expenses are not covered 100% and you know this. By even suggesting that they all had hidden agendas is appalling to me. You should be ashamed for even suggesting it. Our family NEVER went on vacation because Don chose to put his time & money into this sport he loved so much, it cost him $1000.00’s every year to be involved. He went to every National meeting and Annual meeting for as long as I can remember.

So when I get emails from someone that hides behind a fake name asking what you are referring too and asking me if our family enjoyed the members money it REALLY PISSES me off. How dare you throw accusations out there making people think that. So if you have issues with specific people come right out and say it, call them out, quit betting around the bush and throw accusations out there making people wonder about everyone that has ever been involved. Stop throwing everyone that gave their life to this sport under the bus your are driving. It really is quite appalling. Be a man and put the names out there that you think profited off of the members so it stops making people wonder.

And who ever sent the email…you’re a spineless coward.

I've been around this sport for awhile and I don't claim to nor want to know all about the politics involved but what I do know is that Don Allen Sr. Was an upstanding, respectable man that spent HIS time, HIS money and busted his ass so WE the members could race. For his son to have to defend him or his family here is total bull****!

[Big Don]

Dave while some may think I’m defending them, I really am not. What I defend is their integrity and their hard work. And I know you were not responding (I think) to me. I just want it known that I’m not defending the last 20 years and where we are at.

I agree with almost everything you wrote. It should be run like a business and I truly believe that is what the current leaders are trying to do. It is a long time coming.

I agree we will never have everyone come to agreement on the happenings in 2003. It will always be painted one way or another. We have what we have. Can’t change the past. We just have to hope not to repeat some of it. And that is not pointing the finger at either camp…it’s pointing at all of us.

Agree that for 20 years we are losing ground…it has to stop. Hopefully the changes will help that…time will tell.

Agree we have too many rules.

The thing I disagree with you on is…if we are not happy with our leaders than we need to step up and either run or get behind people that will and let’s get them in. Don’t go away mad and complain. Get involved, add some value. (That is not directly pointed at you) not directly but somewhat. Get back involved. Maybe there is more to your issues than I know but if you want change, we the members are the ones that can make that happen. There are a lot of smart people in our organization that could help us. There is a reason many of them keep getting elected and have been on for 30 years… Either no one is running against them that can beat them or a large majority like what they are doing.

I’m not discrediting our current board but can you imagine if we had a board that had a few of these people on it… substitute other names in and out, I’m only focusing mainly on Stock people or people I have been impressed with from attending the national meetings…I don’t know many of the others in the other categories and their professions. Dean Sutherland, Richard Hearn, Richard Runne, Mike Pavlick, Robin Shane, Dana Holt, Bill Pavlick, Scott Reed, Gary Pond, etc…pretty smart people or people you know will speak their minds. Now I understand they may not be able to give the time it takes, that is probably why they don’t run, their livelihoods get in the way.


I strongly encourage people to write Dean’s name down. Dean gets it. I think he and others can add value.

[kampkurz]

I was one stamp short of putting my ballot in the mail a few days ago. Just before this thread started. Wow. I'm only one member but I will be writing in Dean Sutherland's name on mine. Good luck too all of us.

[YankeeRacing]

Howard, here is what I do know…

My father in the 70’s was sitting at a race with Paul Kalb. Don was telling Paul that he didn’t like the way things were going in APBA. Paul’s response was, if you don’t like it get involved…Don did. Now remember a lot of this was back when the average person had $30.00 phone bills in the 70’s & 80’s. You know how much our phone bill was. In the $100.00/$200.00 and even more, every month for as long as I can remember. That’s just one example of how much money our family put in, just like many others. It cost Don money to get involved, just like it does for all of us, by giving our time. Don has held almost every position possible in this organization. Did he and I always agree on things, NO, but that’s life. But to even suggest that the BOD is profiting off of this is insulting to everyone.

The BOD members do get some of their expense covered but it’s a small portion of what they give. I for one and do not have a problem with that. But they certainly are not profiting from it and their expenses are not covered 100% and you know this. By even suggesting that they all had hidden agendas is appalling to me. You should be ashamed for even suggesting it. Our family NEVER went on vacation because Don chose to put his time & money into this sport he loved so much, it cost him $1000.00’s every year to be involved. He went to every National meeting and Annual meeting for as long as I can remember.

So when I get emails from someone that hides behind a fake name asking what you are referring too and asking me if our family enjoyed the members money it REALLY PISSES me off. How dare you throw accusations out there making people think that. So if you have issues with specific people come right out and say it, call them out, quit betting around the bush and throw accusations out there making people wonder about everyone that has ever been involved. Stop throwing everyone that gave their life to this sport under the bus your are driving. It really is quite appalling. Be a man and put the names out there that you think profited off of the members so it stops making people wonder.

And who ever sent the email…you’re a spineless coward.

Don, I feel for you. (And I am not taking any kind of stand, just hoping I make you feel better). When I became Executive Director of AOF I did it under the pretense that I not have to handle the money. So, they created a new officer-Treasurer. An elected official who wrote all checks and approved all expenditures. (The Executive Director previously was responsible for those duties in AOF). I even worked for 8 years with no pay so that the treasury could be built up. Fianlly they made me take some pay. ($1800 a year-wow). So, my last year in office, I was accused of stealing all of AOF money. Funny, I had no access to the money, and besides, AOF had and still has enough money. BUT what really pissed me off is that there were some who said my husband bought a new trailer and my kids were racing equipment bought with AOF money! Oh my gosh. Accuse me, but leave my family alone!
Isn't it strange how stories get started by people who think they can do it better, but really don't want to try? I'm as angry about your story as I am mine. Then they wonder why good people go by the wayside and the ones who are itching are still there itcing year after year, and never do run for office to fix what they are itching about!
Connie Payn

[Dave M]

Understood

Dave while some may think I’m defending them, I really am not. What I defend is their integrity and their hard work. And I know you were not responding (I think) to me. I just want it known that I’m not defending the last 20 years and where we are at.

I agree with almost everything you wrote. It should be run like a business and I truly believe that is what the current leaders are trying to do. It is a long time coming.

I agree we will never have everyone come to agreement on the happenings in 2003. It will always be painted one way or another. We have what we have. Can’t change the past. We just have to hope not to repeat some of it. And that is not pointing the finger at either camp…it’s pointing at all of us.

Agree that for 20 years we are losing ground…it has to stop. Hopefully the changes will help that…time will tell.

Agree we have too many rules.

The thing I disagree with you on is…if we are not happy with our leaders than we need to step up and either run or get behind people that will and let’s get them in. Don’t go away mad and complain. Get involved, add some value. (That is not directly pointed at you) not directly but somewhat. Get back involved. Maybe there is more to your issues than I know but if you want change, we the members are the ones that can make that happen. There are a lot of smart people in our organization that could help us. There is a reason many of them keep getting elected and have been on for 30 years… Either no one is running against them that can beat them or a large majority like what they are doing.

I’m not discrediting our current board but can you imagine if we had a board that had a few of these people on it… substitute other names in and out, I’m only focusing mainly on Stock people or people I have been impressed with from attending the national meetings…I don’t know many of the others in the other categories and their professions. Dean Sutherland, Richard Hearn, Richard Runne, Mike Pavlick, Robin Shane, Dana Holt, Bill Pavlick, Scott Reed, Gary Pond, etc…pretty smart people or people you know will speak their minds. Now I understand they may not be able to give the time it takes, that is probably why they don’t run, their livelihoods get in the way.


I strongly encourage people to write Dean’s name down. Dean gets it. I think he and others can add value.

Don,

You are right, it was not pointed at you, or anyone else for that matter, just an opinion. Every Nat meeting I ever went to, or region meeting your Dad was present. I know he took it seriously, and gave a lot of himself to help the sport. He earned the respect he deserved. Still one of the fairest referees ever in my opinion.

As for getting involved, one can only take so much before they decide to walk away. I don't intend to ever get involved in their politics ever again. We tried to steer the organization to the flip side of dwindling, but it fell on deaf ears. I think it was referred to as whining. And with some of the tech rule changes in Mod, I doubt some things would ever go back to when some classes were in serious growth stages, only to be hindered by the rule changes. In a nutshell, I lost my faith in the APBA.