New J Engine?

[14-H]

Family Sport/ Costs

Stop hijacking my thread about the new J motor or I'll delete your posts. Start a new one. Ed.

[Dave M]

Dana

Compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. I will have right around 5K invested in my 350CCH. I am doing it the same way you do it, used equipment. Or did you start running 20SSH when the Y80 was still available new ? I don't know the answer to that.

You can't buy a fast up front running J engine for $2500.00. You can buy an off the shelf fishing engine with some fancy racing parts on it. But to make it fast you need to invest into a lot of machine work, at least a thousand bucks if you don't do the work yourself. Most of us don't have mills in the basement. You buy a decent used boat. Ed Harrington was asking $2800.00 for an old boat for the J class. I beleive it never sold until recently and for a lot less than that. So lets say $1500.00 for a decent used boat not up to date.

Base Engine price for OMC or Merc - $2000.00 Two boats at $1500 each is 3000.00. Two engines non competitive $2000.00 for total of $4000.00. So far to be a field filler you have $6000.00 into it. Props are not in question here because you have to run APBA props. Wait a minute, I forgot, have to buy a gearbox for the Merc because they do not come with one. $1200.00. So now we have a total base price $7200.00 for two field filling J rigs.

Now then you want your kids to be competitive. Lets compare prices for the good stuff-

2 new boats - $3000.00 each. = 6000.00 Ready to go. I know some are more than that but lets use this as a base price.

2 New Merc Engines - 3200 each = 6400.00

If OMC, two good fast used engines (updated allready) $2500.00 ea for $5000.00. (basing on what they are asking for them on this website and assuming they are top notch fast motors).

Okay, so now we have $12,400 for two decent rigs with no motor work done to the Mercs. I still don't have any dollars invested into props and other things needed. Like a trailer, pecker checker, spare parts, tools, etc. We will leave those out of the equation.

Add in at least $1000.00 for each merc to be modified to be competitive in the J class. All work still within rules of stock, or as they call it J. I am being conservative with this estimate I am sure. Maybe someone can tell me what it cost them from one of the builders.

Now we are up to $14,400 for two decent running rigs.

Now then, Dad wants to race too. He looks for a good running used CMH that is for sale right now on HR. Supposed to be a front running rig according to the ad, so lets assume it is. I can't find the ad this second, but it was a Runne boat with a Yamato mod engine on it and I think it was around $6000.00.

You can add these together and see what you have invested into three top notch rigs.......

There are a TON of variables in this as well. If you can do the work yourself, such as I do to save a ton of cash, you can get lucky and find some good used stuff for a good price, etc.

See where I am coming from now Dana ? I am basing these prices right off this web site. Also the APBA Propeller ads for the J engines by Merc.

Do I still sound like I am off my rocker ? I truly think to get new people involved we need to find a way to lower the costs.......

[kws]

To Dave M
while it is true the sport has not grown much in the last ten years. It sure as H**L has not shrunk as much as the 30 years before that !

[ricochet112]

Stop hijacking my thread about the new J motor or I'll delete your posts. Start a new one. Ed.

Ed, You're funny, APBA has 2 J motors available right now and a 3rd due out, (hopefully) in May.

Do we need a 4th? Or would we have a new class, the "JR Junior" class?



Yes Region 10 has had less than stellar success with the Merc but...

The few that bought Merc's gave up after a short time without putting much time or effort into making them work. Most had OMC's that were faster so why put money into the unproven Merc back then.

"Because nobody around here wins with the Mercury...

What an emberassing conversation to have with a guy that we talked into building a J hydro with his son."


My son ran JH at 12 races in 2006 with a Merc and had a point total of 2820, average 235. 3rd place Region 10 HI Pt
In AXSH, 14 races, 2327 points, 232 average. 4th place Region 10 Hi Pt.
This was in a average boat, 10 years old (?), a very forgiving beginner boat, and he was tipping the scales at 327ish, AXS weight!!!!
Put this Merc on a light new boat and a newbie will have a top 3 package out of the box! The only reason it's for sale is he's grownig fast and he's now "A" weight for 2007, so this will be our last year running AXS only.
Unless you find a John/Evin already blueprinted and "gone through" the Merc should be a good motor for someone new to the sport. And you can also buy them new through APBA.

[jeff55v]

THE book.

Fourth, Harry Brinkman of Indiana put out a really good publication a few years ago and I think you can still get copies from him. He titles it "How to Modify Your Mercury Outboard." I believe he put out a supplement entitled "How Two". While this publication is about modified Mercurys, it has some very good information about engine assembly, rings and maintenance that can transfer into Stock use. I'm quite sure Brinkman would sell additional copies if asked. He lives in Leesburg, Indiana and is in the phone book. Ed.

I was looking to buy a second copy of that book to give to a racer buddy. I had heard Harry's health condition was poor. So rather than pestering Harry, I contacted Steve Roskowski. (Steve helped with the production of the book) Steve said Harry's health has prevented him from publishing any more copies of the book.
I agree, the book is really good. Much of the lessons taught in the book can be applied to S.O. as well as Modified.
It would be great to see SOMEONE offering to sell some more copies of that book.
The knowledge would go a long way toward helping a new racer.

[ryan_4z]

Ed, You're funny, APBA has 2 J motors available right now and a 3rd due out, (hopefully) in May.

What 3rd motor?

[ricochet112]

What 3rd motor?

I thought the intention was to have the new SW 15 be a legal J motor also.

[ryan_4z]

I'm not sure what the exact differences are going to be between the Sidewinder J, A, 15, and B engines, but I don't believe that they are planning on putting out a J motor too soon. Like you said, we already have 2 J engines. The plan is to get the 15 and the B going first. Once we get those classes straigtened out, then we can look at J and A. Of course right now J is under it's own category, and I don't know if they have any intentions of following Stock in the use of the Sidewinder motors. It sure would be nice to have J back in Stock where it belongs. Then these decisions would be being made by the same people.

[dholt]

Big Dave,

I conceded that to put 2 up front J rigs on the water you could easily spend $10k.

You stated you could go PRO racing for a lot less. Well, if $5k is what you spent...you'll be a long way from up front. Apples to apples, remember? By the way, how much are those Pro gearcases?

I assume you built your own boat. How much would a new boat cost...rigged? $4000? How much for a motor that is top notch? Props? $400-$450 apiece. Gonna race with no extra pipes? How much is methanol a gallon?

I bought my used Yamato for $800. The rest of the money was for blueprinting. The boat was brand new...less than $2k. $4500 total...then start buying $300 props.

I have seen fast, proven OMC motors for sale for $2500...don't tell me you can't buy a good one for that price. Same thing for 102's and 80's.

Prices are market driven. Don't see them coming down...if you want to win.


Your original post stated $20k for 1 adult and 1 kid to get top notch stuff. Your second post talks about 2 kids and 1 adult for $20k. Which is it?

Sure, we all wish prices were lower. But don't make it sound like Stock is the only high priced venture. How much to get a custom gearcase built for a 102 C MOD? How much for Goller or someone to modify it? How much is a 4 blade? $425? It's all expensive no matter where you go.

[G Stillwill]

Wow a 1000.00 to blue print a Merc 15 man Im not charging enough to do them.

[hydroplay]

Me too. I've got three powerheads here at the shop now. Wow, 3K for some simple machining and reassembly. I should do more.

[crackerboat]

The Right Stuff Is Expensive

Like it or not, nowadays it is becoming evermore costly to properly set youngsters up in ANY sport. Locally we see hundreds of ATVs in the woods every weekend. You often see a guy with two kids, all on "fourwheelers" that cost from six to eight thousand dollars each, maybe more. Then you have a big trailer to haul them on and a suitable truck to pull all that. This equipment is MASS PRODUCED or it would cost even more.

If you compare the investment of $8000 for the ATV against the same money for a race boat for your kid, the boat wins every time. It's a wonder you can buy a something as specialized as a competetive J engine as cheap as you can right now.

Maybe some people loose sight of what your kids get to do with these boats. They are only in this stage of their life for a short time. And there is no doubt that having the ability to compete in real sanctioned races is where the value is here. The boats are just the means of getting there.

[Ron Hill]

We Are Know As..

Chad Hill Racing is known as "The Well Oiled Machine, that IS, Chad Hill Racing....Seems, Chad is like his dad, "We'll get oragnized tomorrow... MAYBE..'".

I like your post, Steve French...Seems like a race team I could "HANG WITH"..."19P founder of -- "NEVER READY RACE'N"..........We're not real FAAAAST.......and we're..NEVER ready.....BUT...We always have...FUN !"

We have fun at Hill Racing.....Like I said about Bakersfield, "There were six boats in Nostalgia...we got sixth..but we had a great time...AND we'll be back..".

TRUST ME, BOAT RACING IS ABOUT FAMILY, FUN AND FRIENDS.......not winning!!!!

[14-H]

Conversion Kit

We spent a whole 5 minutes installing the conversion kit tonight.

[FE04]

Lawnmower vs Raceboat

It's kinda ugly looking, but hey, a great first crack at it by a company known for their dependable low rpm engines . It can only help draw new folks to the sport

Randy Dodd
OVPC