Stock Outboard Questionaire

[Dave M]

Borrow From NBRA ?

Come up with your own plan, don't copy us. APBA has its own set of challenges. I think you would do well to borrow some ideas from the NBRA, but don't outright copy.

Even if the APBA copies the NBRA, you have one major hurdle to still overcome. Sponsors and money. Unless you are getting between 5 - 10K a race site, get rid of the site and go find a site that has the money. Focus on quality, not quantity. A good example is Dayton OH. Do away with that site unless you can get the cash. Constantine MI is another example. I don't even want to get into the west coast challenges. renting water and parks, no sponsors, it will be tough on them in the years to come.

[krazy karl]

Ron,
Sam finished in the top 10 almost every race. Sure Brad had a lot to do with it but those Dodges were fast. Unfortunately as I understand it no one is going to pick up the Dodges because they will have to build their own engines and most teams are not equipped to do that. They just get them from the few teams that do. On top of that Chrysler isn't willing to spend a lot of money in NASCAR anymore because brand loyalty is not big factor there anymore with all the cars being virtually identical. Innovation left the house years ago. Furthermore Chrysler sees NHRA and Rallye racing a better place for their sponsorship. What we need, but how to get it is one of the big questions.
kk

[Ron Hill]

Top Ten's Are Good, But "Cigar"

One post you talk different brands is what people like in NASCAR, next post you say the cars are the same. NASCAR fans like their drivers. There are Ford and Chevy lovers, but most fans like their drivers. I'm not sure NASCAR wins ever directly translated to sales.

For the amount of money Dodge would need to spend in NASCAR, they can spend the same or less in DRAGS and be the STAR. These decision are business decisions.

LUCAS OIL says, "Get me TV TIME, we'll get the money."

Mercury Marine
Tohatsu
Honda
Suzuki
Evinrude
Yamaha

All of these Outboard Motor Companies offer a 15 HP motor with electric starters. IF someone wanted to get a factory into racing they would start at the bottom and race 15 HP motors. These races might not be three lap two heat deals, they might be fifty lap races. They might be economy races, where everyone get three gallons of gas and sees who goes the farthest.

Two stoke motors are not allowed on many California Lakes. Where they race the Solar Cup, 60 miles from my house, is a perfect boat racing lake, but they don't allow two strokes.

Anyway, I hate to see Dodge leave NASCAR but business is business.

[Ron Hill]

ADD: Ron Hill's Post

ADD: Sam Hornish. I like Sam, maybe with a different crew chief he's win some races. Look at Joey Logano in Nationwide this year...

Dave M. made soe excellent points, different areas have different problems.

We have 37 million people in California and 200 lakes. Wisconsin had 5.7 million people and 6,000 lakes large enough to name. If I lived in Wisconsin, I'd buy a lake and light it...race at night.....

We pay $4,700 to rent Puddingstone for a race. Before a boat is on the water, I put out $22,000 for our first Puddingstone race, four years ago.

We made money on that race and I got my money back. Gordon Jenning promoted some serious cash the first year. The next two years we got rained almost out.

We charged $50 OR MORE PER ENTRY FEE PER CLASS. So, yes, we have to pay for water to race on in California.

[blueskyracer]

At least this year NASCAR will have cars that actually look like the brand they represent. No more one body style for all makes..Seems thay are making the right changes..

[krazy karl]

Sorry to keep the hijack going, but I can't resist. I think NASCAR wants to get the brand differentiation back in it, which should help. Attendance is down and Fox, who owns Speedvision is apparently going to change the channel format and drop most of the NASCAR programming and go to more of a total sports network. No, it probably doesn't influence sales anymore but when it was real stock car racing, it definitely did. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday. Richard Petty sold a lot of Plymouths and Dodges. I wish I had my 440 Dodge 500 I once had. Would be worth a couple of hundred thou today.
kk

[Hutch06]

Now you have struck a nerve

Come up with your own plan, don't copy us. APBA has its own set of challenges. I think you would do well to borrow some ideas from the NBRA, but don't outright copy.

Even if the APBA copies the NBRA, you have one major hurdle to still overcome. Sponsors and money. Unless you are getting between 5 - 10K a race site, get rid of the site and go find a site that has the money. Focus on quality, not quantity. A good example is Dayton OH. Do away with that site unless you can get the cash. Constantine MI is another example. I don't even want to get into the west coast challenges. renting water and parks, no sponsors, it will be tough on them in the years to come.

Dave,

Thank you so very much for your insight. But please leave some of the sites that some of us work very, very hard on out of your discussion. Do I disagree with you on your principal? No. But until you're the one doing the work with those organizations on the site - I don't think you have room to criticize.

To sideline this conversation further, Constantine, MI is an ideal site for a boat race. You have a location which has food, grandstands, alcohol, and a race that's been around forever to every boat racer. We're finally at the point to seriously promote the event much further than we ever have before, and I think that the people that are working on it are doing a hell of a job. Are we going to get 5,000 people to come out and watch the race? No. That's not our goal either. Set your goals small and build from there. It's quite a process to build from nothing (in regards to marketing and promotion).

Some of us do put forth a TON of effort in helping us grow our sport. If ALL of the people who preach to the boat racing world through keyboards about "the way to do things" and "how to solve boat racing problems" and "why this group isn't doing it right" would put a quarter of that energy into doing some serious promotional work for their club, class, organization, racing team, etc. I could not imagine how much better off we would be as a sport.

This is what strikes a nerve with this conversation - to steal a line from Tom Low; what have you done for your racing organization lately?

[G Stillwill]

Well said Hutch.

[wildthing]

i think they should leave the marathon out of the plan leave well enough alone i can not aford 5000 for a new motor i race the 55 h and get alot of attenion from the fans of that motor is still racing i have very little tied up into my boats and motors if this clasic thing gose thru for the d class not sure if you will see a d at a short course race its far and inbetween now soon it will be a small famliy of racers with more rules less restrictions will grow the sport you guys perposing this is killing the sport just leave the marathons out of the mix

[Scott Deware]

My opinion is that the comparisons to NASCAR have gone way beyond any realistic. comparison. NASCAR has been successful over the years because it is a "benevelent dictatorship." This works for NASCAR because the have financial clout. We do not. We are a club organization much like SCCA, EMRA and others. Perhaps we should be talking to these organizations instead of comparing ourselves to NASCAR.

The fact is we require the financial contributions of our membership for our survival We have industry suppliers that are limited in their resources (yes, Mercury, Bombardier and the others do have limited resources). We cannot depend on them for our survival. This is not the first time it has been said that the engine manufacturers should be more involved (remember the factory wars of the 70's and IOGP (Mercury) and USFORA (OMC) in the 80's). But what happens when they do become more involved? Then they have a vested interest in the outcome of events. We end up with factory supported drivers and everyone screams foul. Again, we are not NASCAR. In NASCAR, regardles of what you read, teams that finish in the back still make money. This is because their system is set up to allow for teams with a big budget and teams with a small budget. This is because NASCAR teams are businesses. And NASCAR is a business. APBA racing is CLUB racing and our members are CLUB racers.

We need to correct our problems by looking within our organization, clubs and membership.

As for the NASCAR "fans" on this blog, your "opinion" is yours, but perhaps you need some additional facts. There was much more involved in Dodge's decision to leave NASCAR then you have stated. NASCAR not being their market because of "brand loyalty" was not it. It had a lot to do with one Roger P., it had to do with Fiat taking over the brand (does everyone know that "the great American car company" is now run by the French), sorry that's political I should not go there - but politics does paly a role in this. And, Dodge is already looking to how and when it will return. Oh, and look at the past, this is not the first time Dodge has done this. As for attendence and ratings - Every sport has taken a hit over the last several years, including NASCAR. 2012 did see some modest gaines in many markets for NASCAR but it is a shall remain a challenge for them and all sports for a while. In my opinion, for as long as we have an administration that is anti-business (oops, sorry, their goes that politics stuff again).

As for NASCAR's TV contrat and Speed. Fox is revising its format to keep up with the other networks after NBC's big move with its new sports network. In fact Speed was having problems getting enough good content. But maybe you missed the release about NASCAR's new Fox contract. I guess things are really bad at NASCAR. They only recieved a 36% inncrease in their new contract. It's expect that the $$$$ for the ABC/ESPN half of the season contract will also go up after NBC gets into the bidding.

And while I have the Soap Box - one last thing....I'm not a Pro Category guy, but I'm perplexed why the sky is falling because a series that runs about six races a year with from what I see is an average of six or seven boats a class decides to leave APBA. A real wake up call maybe, but not doom. I also find it hard to believe that people that are willing to drive thousands of miles a year to race in a series (not just once to a National's), are making decisions based on a few hunderd dollars a race. If you don't care about the APBA Championship banner, just run as a special event and make up your own rules. Maybe I'm way off base but it seems to me that the majority of Pro racers still race local events. To me the challenge now is to make sure that they know that they are valued and welcomed, even if they run a couple of USTS events.

Oh, one last thing - I wonder what the outcome of a vote by the entire membership would have been?

[rumleyfips]

They all look alike.

Are there two Fiats? One French and one Italian?

[HRTV]

I wish everyone would drop the subject; we have heard about this topic and every other topic around powerboat racing and Nascar ad nauseam.

Its the same old post and opinions dating all the way back to December 2002 when I first started this web site.

[raceright]

I wish everyone would drop the subject; we have heard about this topic and every other topic around powerboat racing and Nascar ad nauseam.

Its the same old post and opinions dating all the way back to December 2002 when I first started this web site.

yep and will keep on an on an on

[hagerl8m]

Been A long time

Generally I avoid posting and/or reading. Not because I don't care for the sport I've been apart of my entire life but more because the last few years I haven't been able to afford to race at the volume I once did and feel a little disconnected from it. This will be my 20th year of racing and it will be far from my last.

The plan to stream line the product sounds great, but for what reason? Sponsors? TV? Yes I understand it is a long day of racing but we are really talking about growth here. Cutting classes / motors would probably decrease number at first and then lead to growth. Not that I have the numbers but I bet someone already does. How many new drivers have bought one of the available new motors, this does not mean a family that quit and came back or a family that their child is old enough to race? Then show the feasibility of replacing motors.

I like Plan "B". I think i saw it a number of years ago. It keeps the current motors and builds towards replacing motors on over time, giving current members time to replace equipment as funds become available.

As for the original suggestion. I'm not going to pick the entire thing apart, no reason several others have done that. I do have a question that could be answered if we are talking about growth.

Say I was 14 and my family could only afford to buy one (1) motor and since I'm small I'm running JR / JH. My family buys a Mercury because it is the dominate motor currently in J and I could continue to race it as I get older in AX. Now if we eliminate the Mercury 15 from Stock wouldn't we be eliminating positional growth in the sport. Just wondering how many families would need to replace their motor just to race in Stock.

[Scott Deware]

Sorry, my mistake about Fiat. But I stand by my point - Another company marketed as an "All American" company sold to an offshore bidder.

And I agree with HRTV's last posting, so I think one of my New Year's resolutions will be to stop chatting about all this and see what I can do to help make Region 1 a strong as it can be.