Stock Outboard 2011 National Meeting Updates!!!!!!

[pav225]

Ross/Mike/others, great discussion, thx for sharing insight.
a technical reference on basic topics written by vets eg: prop heights, 302 carb/jet adjustment, hull lift, tuck in/out, checking for flat heads, when to re-ring,etc...the basics as reference guide,...SO's own wikipedia. '.

Erik,
This is an EXCELLENT idea!

We'll need to put an outline together, but already I am thinking of:
- Straightening a bottom
- Turn fin set up
- Motor set-up on boat
- Basic motor maintenance
- etc, etc, etc

Perhaps we can have a few teams cover different topics. I will discuss with our Club and Chicago Paul. We can probably use our "new" club boats to actually demonstrate lessons on.

To ensure we cover relevant topics, I think it would be good to ask new folks what are some of the best areas to focus on.

Thanks for the Great idea!

- Mike

[22W]

Erik,
This is an EXCELLENT idea!

We'll need to put an outline together, but already I am thinking of:
- Straightening a bottom
- Turn fin set up
- Motor set-up on boat
- Basic motor maintenance
- etc, etc, etc

Great point Mike! A common new guy problem spot that is easily overlooked and can lead to drastic handling issues. Come to think of it, I have seen a couple of veterans miss this one!

[Matt Dagostino]

Detroit vs Seattle

Did I miss your motion?

Pour another cup of coffee Mr Chairman.........Seattle is where i got shot down. I did not see the point of bringing the issue up again at Detroit.

Maybe next time i will have Jerry David's and Bob Goller speak to the issue in front of the SORC. Perhaps they will trump the gallery. I personally think the issue is many of the TOP Yamato 80's are concerned if the class height is lowered to match the CSH 3/4" height the Yamato 302 will have the edge on the Antique model 80????

Mr Joe Pater made that arguement to the SORC in Seattle when 'giving his opinion' to the SORC. Again, we are a democratic body and i respect the SORC's decisions. Butttttt, if enough members wish to lower the height and VOICE that opinion only then will it will happen.........

Ed Runne and i had a nice chat a couple months back and questioned where the CSH and 20ssh Classes would be if the Yamato 302 were made the Motor Of Choice say 10 years ago........... we contend that we would have grown the classes the same way CSH/CSR grew when we buried the 30-H in 1990 after the 102 established traction and proved what a great motor it was from both a performance and affordability position. Sooner or later the Yamato 80 and 102 workhorse motors will be nudged into retirement, hopefully sooner than later.

It seems that if a plan like Dean's or others is to succeed, at some point equipment issues like this will need to be alligned with class re-structuring to 'level the playing field'............

" Not a sermon, just a thought".....................

The Capt.
ps............225-V. Come on down! I will leave the light on for ya! We need all the help we can get down here!

[pav225]

Words of Wisdom from the Capt...

Forum: APBA SO Category Chairman's Forum 01-02-2011, 07:59 AM
Replies: 124 SO class reduction proposal, next steps
Views: 9,477 Posted By Matt Dagostino
Cooling

Hi Mike
The issue is more than cooling. I have no problem at 1/2"............

See you in Detroit....

Matt

[Rocky Peterson]

Motors for 20ssh

You could always get a Sidewinder and drop it down ....to lets say 1 3/8 or 2in. or WATHEVER!!!! Rocky

[ricochet112]

You could always get a Sidewinder and drop it down ....to lets say 1 3/8 or 2in. or WATHEVER!!!! Rocky

4.5", just for you, lol

[seanp3]

Mike,I was fully aware the 4 time champ cannot run at the limit as I helped him drop his motor down the last time we raced together.Don most of the new guys up here only have one or two props and even if they had more they do not have the 30 years experience of reading the water to adjust accordingly.Don and Mike did you guys have to rework your whole propbox for the drop in CSH? I spoke with some top runners in CSH and they said they did not make any prop changes.Is there anyone out there that can run at the max all the time with no risk.Do the 302's run at the max? Peeters,Perman,JMK,Kyle Lewis,Billy Allen, feel free to join in on the fun.Mike,I am not asking for your sympathy or aplogies for working hard?Once again this is not a personal attack.I am trying prevent needlessly burning up parts by inexperienced people we so desperately need to keep around to race with us.If the 4 time champ and A.J. (runs at 3/4) can run good at lower and in your words "makes little difference on course speed" what is the down side? Once again I ask why does it have to be so difficult?Please do not refer to some guy who ran without a restriction years ago.I need to sell this to the guys(and gals sorry) of today and the future.

I do not use the same prop in CSH as when we ran at 1/2". The prop I used then is still good and has almost the same straight away speed when we ran at 1/2". However, it is now a dog in the corners. I haven't raced that prop since the height was changed to 3/4".

As far as what height we run at now...... I try to keep it as close to min depth as possible. Not every boat is the same and you have to get to know your boat well to know where you can run at. It can vary a bit from one race course to another, and from different water conditions. I had one boat I had to consistantly run deeper than an inch. I found out later it had a flaw in the bottom about 20 inches in front of the gearfoot. I replaced the bottom and was able to run at 1/2" after that. Its very important the back 36" or so of the bottom be very flat. Any slight contour of the bottom in that area can affect the cooling of these Yamatos.

At Pro Nats we have quite a bit of testing time before race day. When we stick Guedo in that Altralite a lot of what we do is figure out what setup will work to get the 4 laps in. As said earlier if you can't finish you can't win. Our first year at Depue I think we ran close to 1" deep. Since then, with testing new props and setup changes we have reduced that height. But, that is a fairly big course and the boats air out quite well. Bottom line is you need to test. The new guy should error on the safe side...... run it deep if there is any doubt.

There is no downside for a new guy to be running a little on the deep side. It gets him seat time in the boat. A good setup in 20SSH at 1/2" is not going to be that much different at 3/4"

[Matt Dagostino]

Perhaps..........

A good setup in 20SSH at 1/2" is not going to be that much different at 3/4"

I think the midwest guys might argue that point. Just seems that if we lowered it to 3/4" to match the CSH class all water issues dissapear. No need to contour bottoms, fix air traps, buy trick props, etc etc. Plus Ross and Dana can throw away those hoses they run down the side of the combing to watch for steam!! This 'banter' reminds me of the days when we were trying to institute transom heights back in the 80's. Everyone has a opinion with many good points pro and con. Being 'against' something on Hydroracer shouldn't be perceived as being negative or a whiner........all 'opinions' matter and often help balance the scales.

Say hey to Dan for me!!

matt

[Big Don]

I’ve come up with a way to save all of us time and money…

Here is how it would work. We all show up at the race and put our names in the class we want to “race” and we have someone pull a name and that is the winner. No need to set up the rig, heck you probably don’t even have to have a rig, no fuel needed, no props needs, less expenses altogether, no worries about cooking your engine. .. I know we could probably do this without ever leaving our homes but then we wouldn’t be able to see all our friends, so I think we should do it at the race site.

The other option is we don’t pull a name at all and we just announce that everyone is a winner and then there should be no hard feelings.
Then again…I’m sure we could find some reason as to why it was not fair or that someone had an unfair advantage.

As far as ½ or ¾…. How about we put the 80 & 102 at ¾, the 302 at 1” and the Sidewinder at 1 ½. Reason for the 302 at 1”…it seems people are concerned that the 302 will have the advantage if they are at the same height as the 80 & 102. We can always adjust if we need to with the parity committee.

I don’t have a clue on 302 heights but I have heard the same arguments with the 302 that we are hearing with the 80’s… I can’t run at ½ and then I hear there are some that can.

Matt you see to think that by lowering the height to ¾ it would give an advantage to the 302’s????? You working on the 302 program? Mind sharing why you think they would have the advantage? Remember this is not about giving anyone an advantage (well other than those of you that can’t run at ½) it’s about trying to find parity and a pretty level playing field.

[Matt Dagostino]

Height.............

Matt you see to think that by lowering the height to ¾ it would give an advantage to the 302’s????? You working on the 302 program? Mind sharing why you think they would have the advantage? Remember this is not about giving anyone an advantage (well other than those of you that can’t run at &#189 it’s about trying to find parity and a pretty level playing field.

It is "Smokin" Joe Pater who made the statement publically in Seattle that if 3/4" were implemented in the 20ssh class that his Yamato 80's would be uncompetitive! He said that to the SORC. I am not convinced he is correct but i am sure it will slow the Yamato 80 down a bit and of course pump lots of water through the motor.

The parity issue is a seperate issue of course. You know my thoughts on Parity...........i do not subscribe to it and believe each class 'eventually' should have a motor of choice as is the case in the J Cataglory and that prefered motor should be the one that is new and available if possible. Parity at best creates 'indecision' and creates motor wars! Just my position.

My FEELING is from a performance standpoint, dropping the 20ssh height will help the 302 a bit and hurt the Yamato 80 a bit.............but i know for sure at 3/4" of an inch below the bottom water will flow and Montoya's piston sales for Yamato 80's and 302's will decline!!

.............................................
'I don't necessarily agree with everything i say either'

[B Walker]

100% agree on "designated motor of choice" rather than an attempt at parity as long as the motor of choice is available new or reconditioned.

Parity attempts only create confusion, unnecessary rule making, and dont do anything to help the sport grow.

At its worst, attempts at parity are little more than more "trailer box protectionism" that I believe to be a major factor in getting Stock Outboard into its present difficulties.

Bonus: Designated motor of choice will free up equipment to new members at reduced cost that may not be able to compete nationally but will get them hooked on the sport. After the new member learns how to drive and make a good start, they can move the equipment on and subsidise the cost of the top shelf equipment.

BW

[pav225]

?

What is the "motor of choice" for 20ssH...Y302 or SW20?

Who gets to decide that?

- Mike

[Matt Dagostino]

?????

What is the "motor of choice" for 20ssH...Y302 or SW20?

Who gets to decide that?

- Mike

Yes sir...........that is the 64 million dollar question. To be continued........

[B Walker]

Well, I think were making progress scince you did not even put the Y-80 on the list Mike.



I dont hold my cards as close to the chest as the Capt but I have less skin in the game too.

The Sidewinder 20 has alot of work to do to beat the value proposition of the 302 being used in 2 classes with the simple addition of a restrictor plate. It doesnt even need to be mentioned the 302 is half the price.

I think "what to do with the SW 20" will be a long and difficult conversation.

I have some suggestions for the SW 20 but am not yet ready to put in writing forever here on HR.net all my thoughts on the SW 20 issue.

I will say if I was going to buy a Sidewinder right now, it would be a 20.... even with its semi-limbo status currently.

BW

[Rocky Peterson]

Motor of choice

Not the Sidewinder, not this year anyway, now that its been "BURIED" to 1 3/8" Rocky