SO class reduction proposal, next steps

[mike ross]

Howie no i didnt. Send anything you have to my email address. dubber75m@comcast.net. Thanks

[Boatracer4fun]

There are several proposals floating around. Here is one that keeps all motors we currently use. Each motor can be raced twice, 1 time in Hydro and 1 time in Runabout. Also the Approved motor for Hydro's is the same as the Approved motor in Runabouts.

BULLSEYE Howie. I said the same thing in an earlier post.

[G Stillwill]

Howie your proposal is much more in the ball park and Im all for it,doesnt hurt any of the clubs money wise with entry fees.

[csh12M]

Club revenue.

Howie your proposal is much more in the ball park and Im all for it,doesnt hurt any of the clubs money wise with entry fees.

George none of these plans would hurt the club. If we cut out the 4 boat classes we can run the 8 boat classes 3 times in 2 days! The clubs can actually make more entry revenue without having to cater to the members of the club that are racing 4 boat classes.

If we all could start getting 3 rides a weekend out of one rig it may keep you from investing in two rigs to get water time. Imagine if we ran all classes three times in two days and ran a three heat format! It is possible if we pair down the classes. Clubs make the same or more money. New people get 50% more water time out of one rig purchase than they do now. Heck I even would probably race only one class. Which could or would mean less motors purchased, less propellers purchased, smaller trailer, smaller tow vehicle. We need to look at the BIG PICTURE. We will never be able to race three heat formats or any other ideas until we pair down our classes.

[csh12M]

here is Nuch's actual proposal. The other one I had played with.

Dean,
With my plan (a few posts above) it only adds 2 additional classes into the mix so I was thinking it would still remain workable, but ?? As for the 25/20 combo it would be with the restrictor back in on the 25. Now I am not sure from there as to the difference in speed ranges so you may be correct. Not saying any 1 plan is better than another but throwing more options out to look over.

Mike did you get my other agenda items?

Hey Howie, and boatracer4fun,

I did not take your plan as bashing and love hearing your input. I know you are trying to look at the BIG picture with all the right motivations. However, even with the restrictor in the 25 it still is 71/72MPH just less punch. The best 20SSH go 65. So, that version of plan would either kill the 20SSH class if we don't restrict the 25 enough....and I think we all agree we cant disgruntle 80+ drivers.....or you put such a restriction package on the 25 as to deem it unraceable...... I just don't think you have anything feasable for that class. Everything in my proposal has pretty legit possibility of working, from a speed range point of view. I have not combined anything that is not or has not been within 2MPH of what it is being combined with. I think we can manage parity around 2MPH difference with weight and CC, but 5-7MPH difference, that is just not practical.

I have raced my CSH against Jeff Brewsters 25SSH in a Grand Prix at Springfield Lake. It was not even close, Jeff hung back for a lap or two make it look "Racie" for the spectators. Then he hit it an passed the two CSH in front of him with ease with about 3MPH on me. 25SSH are two fast for CSH let alone 20SSH.

I am going to try and submit an additional proposal to the MOD commission to let the 25XS into either 350 or 400 Mod hydro. It is already legal in BMR.
If that could pass then everyone has a place to race. Every race that runs 25SSH also runs Mods.

Dean
12M

[PopPop]

Dean's proposal looks great. Fewer classes, More heats

[Graham 18ce]

Just wondering what 3 times in two days means to you....people are mentioning three heats (one entry fee) and others have mentioned races (that is 3 entry fees).

Reducing classes is great for the sport, but comes to the pocket book for many, some are not going to have an ideal place to race, and will sell out or walk away, others which maybe be in line are going to be paying more for the weekend to get the entries covered to pay for an unsponsored race and getting that 3 race day.

Also, now that all these engines are running together it is going to start looking like something out of left field as there are several motors in a class and how do you chose a dominate motor? Or how do you sell a motor that is off the pace, but is still the new motor which should be of choice. Any long term plans to cut the old motors out.

All this is great planning, but where is the long term goals...if the organization can't even decided what to name a class year over year, what faith is there that the class structure will stay or go without some sort of planning involved.

[csh12M]

CBF brothers

Just wondering what 3 times in two days means to you....people are mentioning three heats (one entry fee) and others have mentioned races (that is 3 entry fees).

Reducing classes is great for the sport, but comes to the pocket book for many, some are not going to have an ideal place to race, and will sell out or walk away, others which maybe be in line are going to be paying more for the weekend to get the entries covered to pay for an unsponsored race and getting that 3 race day.

Also, now that all these engines are running together it is going to start looking like something out of left field as there are several motors in a class and how do you chose a dominate motor? Or how do you sell a motor that is off the pace, but is still the new motor which should be of choice. Any long term plans to cut the old motors out.

All this is great planning, but where is the long term goals...if the organization can't even decided what to name a class year over year, what faith is there that the class structure will stay or go without some sort of planning involved.

Graham,

It has meant both...MHRA has traditionally ran an all Stock schedule, but we are at a point where we can not cover expenses. Instead of adding Mods. we are trying to give more water time to those that come by running three races over two days in our larger classes. If we can pair out some of the "lesser raced" classes in the category we could race all classes three times in two days (more entry fee revenue) and have time to try and run three heats per class if we want to try that.

I do not think our pick and choose, al cart, methods for deciding what classes race each weekend based on local strength is a good model.

As far as motors and dominance, I admit that it may not be perfect and tweaking will need to be done over the next few years. As I have posted, this is not the final step, it is the first step. If we can get back to A,B,C,D and freeze the classes for the next ten years we can then work on gradual phase in plans of dominant motor per class. Attempt to manage parity and a dominate motor will emerge, just like it did in the J category without killing all the OMC at once.

Thanks for the input.

Dean Sutherland
12M

[Fast Jack]

Classes

Dean , I read in your post that your plan would eliminate the purchase of Props boats , allow smaller tow rigs? . What will this do to the vendors that support our sport? Most of our parts come from people with large investments and little returns on the parts they design,build and stock for us . Sid Bass did not sell any engines this season , and only 1 gear foot .How many 44Xs motors were sold this season ? and Rick is sitting on a Lot of $ in Yamato's. Some combination of classes may be necessary , But how you run your program makes a huge difference in how long your day will be and how many classes can be run . Region 1 ( SSOA) has able to average at least 6 heats an hour at our races this season. We also have 3 days of racing in 2 , Alot of races I have been to have so much down time we loose a large portion of the day with a" Hurry up and Wait ". Perhaps before a 10 year freeze we should get our own house in order. Shawn Cabvanaugh

[raceright]

Dean , I read in your post that your plan would eliminate the purchase of Props boats , allow smaller tow rigs? . What will this do to the vendors that support our sport? Most of our parts come from people with large investments and little returns on the parts they design,build and stock for us . Sid Bass did not sell any engines this season , and only 1 gear foot .How many 44Xs motors were sold this season ? and Rick is sitting on a Lot of $ in Yamato's. Some combination of classes may be necessary , But how you run your program makes a huge difference in how long your day will be and how many classes can be run . Region 1 ( SSOA) has able to average at least 6 heats an hour at our races this season. We also have 3 days of racing in 2 , Alot of races I have been to have so much down time we loose a large portion of the day with a" Hurry up and Wait ". Perhaps before a 10 year freeze we should get our own house in order. Shawn Cabvanaugh

Sean worrying about protecting MFG's in my opinion is how you got here in the first place..And although the small MFG's and distributors have been sencire with there help overall I believe this has hurt stockoutboard.

If they had Dealers in every city like the large MFG's do then maybe there would have been more growth in the last 25 years--but we know the small Dealers could not do this. My reasoning as to why stock should run a cubic inch structure without engine specifics.

Make the larger MFG's compete for our business not Protect and MFG..especialy Mercury.
Now that I have Pissed off alot of people understand there is only two ways to tell the truth without pissing people off at UUU
1. Anomomusly
2. Posthumously (might have spelled these wrong)

Pat

laughlolololo

[raceboat61-S]

25SSH restrictors and weights

Dean et al.,
It is unfair for you to misrepresent the speeds and supposed competitive speed advantage the 25SSH using only anecdotal data. I contend that you do this to rationalize your proposal which will undoubtedly marginalize and eventually eliminate the 25XS from stock racing . You must compare competition "lap" speeds NOT just "kilo" speeds. Here are the facts:
3/4 mile records for 25SSH, CSH, 20SSH are 57.3, 58.0, 56.1 respectively. Advantage CSH.
1 mile records for 25SSH, CSH, 20SSH are 60.8, 60.9, 58.0 respectively. Advantage CSH.
Kilo records for 25SSH, CSH, 20SSH are 76.2, 73.8, 71.5 respectively. Advantage 25SSH
Which of these "COMPETITION" records makes you draw the conclusion that the 25SSH should be "restricted" or have 15 pounds of lead added to slow it down?
This being said, I do NOT want to run with Yamato's, PERIOD ! They chew up the water and leave a trench in the turns that makes it unsafe for the 25SSH boats. The 25 SSH is stuck with a retarded gearfoot design that provides a lot of lift to the boat and no amount of burying the foot will correct. Leave our class alone, we'll get our numbers up. Or, clubs can just leave us off the Sanction ! Mike Racevoat 61-S

[raceboat61-S]

There ! I said it !

[53-W]

I also agree it is unsafe and unfair to the smaller Hot-Rod and Merc guys to be forced to race with the yamato. I have race 25ssr with a Hot-Rod for years and QUIT DOING IT because it is an very unsafe condition for smaller lighter boats. The yamatos chew up the race course and make it un raceable for the smaller boats.

The Biggest problem with are sport is that I do not get to VOTE on what happens to my class in stock. A group of people somewhere desides it for me and 90% of them don't even race my class or understand what the change will do to my class that I race. Most of the time the change comes from someone that does not even race my class.

The Best thing for are sport is to leave it ALONE why do wee need to change the rules every year? This just causes problems and piss people off and even make them quit racing!!!!!

Lets make one last rule! NO MORE RULES OR CHANGES AND LETS GO RACING!!!!

53W

[propnuts]

The definition of insanity is just this...

Keep doing what you're doing keep getting what you're getting.

The Best thing for are sport is to leave it ALONE why do wee need to change the rules every year? This just causes problems and piss people off and even make them quit racing!!!!!

Lets make one last rule! NO MORE RULES OR CHANGES AND LETS GO RACING!!!!

53W

[blueskyracer]

The Biggest problem with are sport is that I do not get to VOTE on what happens to my class in stock. A group of people somewhere desides it for me and 90% of them don't even race my class or understand what the change will do to my class that I race. Most of the time the change comes from someone that does not even race my class.

The Best thing for are sport is to leave it ALONE why do wee need to change the rules every year? This just causes problems and piss people off and even make them quit racing!!!!!

Lets make one last rule! NO MORE RULES OR CHANGES AND LETS GO RACING!!!!

53W

You nailed it on the head. I have said it before. I don't think this has been tried. Have no rule changes for 2 years and see what happens. Folks don't know what is legal anymore. Example : Is the 102 motor legal in 20SSH. Last I heard it is not but folks on this site say yes while trying to sell equipment. And I have refered folks on to someone else if they ask me about a class I don't run but rules are being made by folks that have never run the class. To me it make no sense but...................! Right now changing the rules every year is not working.

Just my observations