SO class reduction proposal, next steps

[csh12M]

Attached is a first draft of the class reduction proposal that was discussed a few months ago.

For review, the proposal will return the SO Category to A,B,C,D class structure. The proposal tries to maintain as much of our currently raced equipment as possible. Each class will have a "new motor" option and a "used motor" option.

I am sure I have mistakes or refinements that are necessary to the proposal. Please give your feedback and suggestions, however, please keep the discussion relevant to the proposal.

I am hoping to have the final draft completed and ready for presentation at the National meeting in the next two weeks.

Prior to the National meeting we can solicit a "straw man" vote of the SO Commission on Hydroracer and know where it stands.

Remember, that if the SO Commission supports the proposal it just means that it will go to ballot for the SO membership to decide. My goal is to let all SO racers decide how we want the Category to look like and race like.

Thanks,
Dean Sutherland
12M

[3rd Chance]

Good Stuff

Looking good Dean. I'll be contacting my commissioner and letting him know I support this proposal. Good luck in Detroit.

[Dr. Thunder]

Just curious ...

Dean ... If you had to choose only one motor per class what motor(s) would you choose?

[MGallagher]

Looks good. THE most difficult part that I believe will crush the sport will be parity, which is nearly impossible to achieve without significant money from APBA.

[blueskyracer]

I like it. Very simple and makes sense. Thank you for putting a lot of time into this. I hope folks appreciate it.

[mike ross]

Dean I have been working on the agenda and will include this to it. If you make any changes just ship them to my email and i will add what ever you change. I just cut and paste the stuff that is sent from the commisioners to be discussed. Mike

[M721son]

Good job

Dean, I think this is a step in the right direction. Keep things simple and workable. I would like to say that in BSR it should be up to the driver on running a side fin or roll-up. I have witnessed in CSR good competitive races between the two styles. Keep Up the good work
Jerry Oberlin

[propnuts]

GOOD JOB except...

I don't see the point in allowing the SW 20 in CSR, or the restricted Yamato for that matter. This seems to sort of make a mess of what was a pretty simple class. Other than that it seems OK to me.

[AZ Outlaw]

After reading it once...sounds like a manageable challenge in the right direction. I'm sure I will re-read the proposal several more times before saying I am in total agreement though. A lot of discussion has been made toward stream-lining the SO category, which I agree, is in "the best interest of SO racing."

Jeff Conant
Region 12
SO Commissioner

[burl11]

Dean ... If you had to choose only one motor per class what motor(s) would you choose?

Same question from a different perspective: If you currently run 15 Hot Rod in BSH and Yamato 80 in 20SSH, which rig would you choose to run in the new B, and which one will go Mod?

As the wise old sage Yogi Berra said "The future ain't what it used to be."

[Boatracer4fun]

I don't see the point in allowing the SW 20 in CSR, or the restricted Yamato for that matter. This seems to sort of make a mess of what was a pretty simple class. Other than that it seems OK to me.

Lets do it simple:

ASH/ ASR SAME MOTORS

BSH/BSR SAME MOTORS

CSH/CSR SAME MOTORS

DSH/DSR SAME MOTORS

Put the SW 20 in the BSH/BSR class.

[csh12M]

Team Perman reply

Team Perman, good point, and after review I need to add the 20CI Sidewinder to the chart at the end as I left it off by mistake.

I agree that having the Sidewinder in CSR as well as the restricted Yamato motors makes CSR a messy looking class. However, I think it is imperative at this point. Enough people race restricted Yamatos in 25SSR that I don't feel it is in our best interest to eliminate it. After review of Pater test data and late season polling on 25SSR and CSR drivers the speeds seem to be identical. I think this could turn CSR into a very interesting class. Drivers from 160-220 pounds could race it just handicapped by the restrictor. BSR will primarily be the 20CI Sidewinder class and the cost will be high, initially numbers will be low. CSR can bridge the gap for the 170 pound driver that is to big for ASR but can't afford a BSR. I really think this weight/restrictor handicapping will work and could be very interesting for our future.

As far as leaving the 20CI Sidewinder in. I think it will help justify the cost of a Sidewinder. A 180 pound driver could potentially buy the motor to race in BSR and CSR. As a CSR Yamato racer, if I get beat by someone running a 20CI Sidewinder at 395 against a full field at Nationals, I tip my hat to them! I feel the same way about the Merc., however I do feel we should put the restrictor back in the motor. Again, if you can beat the Yamatos with that set up, hats off to you.

I understand that this is messy and not ideal, but if we are going to change and still try and accommodate as many people as we can this is the reality we are facing.

I really think this CSR class can work. Everyone I talk with on both sides (25SSR/CSR Yamatos) think that this handicapping is pretty fair right now.

Hope that answers the question. I will make the change to the chart to include the 20CI Sidewinder to CSR.

Let me know what else you think.

Thanks,
12M

[csh12M]

Tom Burwinkle reply

Hello Tom,

Dang, I left off the restricted 302 in BSH. I need to fix that!

Like CSR, BSH becomes an interesting experiment. For the proposal I have include all variants of the current BSH class and the 20SSH class. We have reduced the CC on the Sidewinder and the Hot Rod back to 12CC. At that CC, the Hot Rod used to be capable of going high 64 low 65MPH. This is currently what the 20SSH class runs at. I do not think the 15CI Sidewinder is capable of reaching those speeds, and initially I suggest getting it out of the class altogether. (I also think the SO commission should pay the conversion cost to the A of 20CI to anyone that has bought one) However, in our last discussions some wanted it left in, maybe we even lower their weight 10-15lbs. Additionally I think you could add 10-15lbs to the Yamatos (but I did not change that in the proposal). This would allow the BSH class to be raced by anyone weighing 160-200lbs.

Now the real answer, I don't see many current Hot Rod or 15CI Sidewinder guys doing this. I think most will put the pipes on and run Mod. Initially the Yamatos will and should be "motor of choice", but the 20CI Sidewinder should be "real" competitive within 1-3 years. A 20CI Sidewinder should be very capable of 65mph on a hydro. Eventually it should be motor of choice. Parity and transition can be managed effectively through weight and CC.

Again, it looks messy, but everything I have suggested here is pretty reasonable and I think is plausible. The result is a class with multiple entry points based on the drivers weight and multiple price points to enter on equipment.

Hope that helps Tom.

Thanks,
Dean Sutherland
12M

[csh12M]

Boatracer4fun reply

Lets do it simple:

ASH/ ASR SAME MOTORS

BSH/BSR SAME MOTORS

CSH/CSR SAME MOTORS

DSH/DSR SAME MOTORS

Put the SW 20 in the BSH/BSR class.

You are right, and in a perfect world that would be possible. However, in this one it is not. We would leave way to many people behind in your scenario. Heck just look at it from a membership perspective....we have to vote it in. Politics is compromise. I would love your scenario and not have to worry about parity, weights, CC, and restrictors, but the reality is that is just not possible. This is a first step in the right direction. If this can get to ballot I think we should amend it to freeze the SO category to A,B,C,D for the next ten years. NO NEW CLASSES AND NO CHANGE TO THE CLASS STRUCTURE. Then we spend the next ten years refining the classes and phasing out the older motors to get to your model. This is not the final step it is the first step of a larger vision to get to where you want to go.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Dean Sutherland
12M

[jsilvestri]

Great proposal Dean. Keep up the good work!