If I Were King I'd....

[B Walker]

If you want to race outboards and be part of a show or an event the PRO Division may be right for you.

BW

was referenced by:

Comments like this are downright uncalled for. You repeatedly make off-base, unproductive, ill-advised comments regarding PRO that are of no use to your point, or boat racing in general.

Anderson V21

I did not mean anything offensive or derogatory in my post. I apologise for offending you. I meant it as a sincere suggestion to those Stock and Modified Outboarders that want a "show" or "event" kind of racing experierience.

I stand by my point that the PRO Division (USTS) puts on a show and that Stock and Modified Outboard is entry level racing.

Please read my comment in that light without reading into my comment

USTS promotes itself as a show, an event which can be promoted and I have alot of respect for what they do. I attend their events whenever they are in my area. They are fun and very well done. I have nothing but respect for the drivers, teams, and leadership that makes the USTS happen.

Please try not to read a tone into my posts. I am a huge supporter of USTS and the PRO Division but at the same time no other division has members more sensitive to criticism and in this case, not even criticism, but a sincere suggestion to check out an aspect of the sport the Stock or Modified racer may not be familiar with.

BW

[hydroid]

So Ed, it's been a week....

I'm a Newbie, my son and I(14)just finished our first full year racing.
Over the past week, we've seen different comments/opinions: some blue sky, hopeful, realistic, 'not a hope in hell', jaded, irrelevant, off topic,....and personal attacks. But overall, King-like ideas from SO guys racing much longer than I, definitely passionate.

Couple of Q's from a newbie:

1) To All, does APBA give a sh-t about SO with 400-500 racers, and sinking fast?...or do they have sights on other better revenue generating growth classes...?...if there is such a thing.
2) Ed, I don't know you. I get the sense you're of the philosophy 'strong leadership is not a popularity contest', works for me. So, you initiated the thread, solicited the King thing, and have read the comments. I think we're starting to go in circles here. Can you please rank in order of priority the top 8-10 items you think need to be done to grow the sport, and how?...if you can't, just tell me why.

Not trying to stir sh-t here, just looking for hope. I am asking this as an individual, not as a representative of the racing club to which I am pleased to belong and represent. But I do beleive I am asking in the spirit of hope, enthusiasm, and new/clear thinking for this sport/passion I have seen by other newbies(Raymond, Mdaspit, Me-Otch, my son,...), although not speaking for them.
Time to move this onto next steps.
Erik

[krazy karl]

Insurance

The simple idea of opening up the insurance to a competitive bid a few years ago was met with threats of people getting lifetime bans from the sport and other abusive and heavy handed threats. There is no chance of the subject being re-visited anytime soon especially by the current leadership.

I fully expect the insurance underwriters to ride the sinking ship all the way to the bottom.

I bet my best CSR wheel Connie Payne cannot resist chiming in here now

The APBA membership voted for status quo leadership and thats what they will get.

BW

When I was with the local dirt track they used the insurance co that uses the letters same as the initials in my name above. They did this because this company insured racing and they had always used them. I suggested we shop around. I called my insurance agent and asked if they could do such a thing as insure stock car racing expecting to be laughed right off the phone. Not only did they not laugh but got me a rate that was almost half of what we had been paying. It was not a popular company but it was the same one that carried my house and cars. They are more well known now because they now sponsor the race that is run the day before the Sprint Cup. They as well as others would not doubt be interested in our business. Something we should look into.
kk

[HRTV]

was referenced by:



I did not mean anything offensive or derogatory in my post. I apologise for offending you. I meant it as a sincere suggestion to those Stock and Modified Outboarders that want a "show" or "event" kind of racing experierience.

I stand by my point that the PRO Division (USTS) puts on a show and that Stock and Modified Outboard is entry level racing.

Please read my comment in that light without reading into my comment

USTS promotes itself as a show, an event which can be promoted and I have alot of respect for what they do. I attend their events whenever they are in my area. They are fun and very well done. I have nothing but respect for the drivers, teams, and leadership that makes the USTS happen.

Please try not to read a tone into my posts. I am a huge supporter of USTS and the PRO Division but at the same time no other division has members more sensitive to criticism and in this case, not even criticism, but a sincere suggestion to check out an aspect of the sport the Stock or Modified racer may not be familiar with.

BW

If Stock Outboard Racing is truly a entry level category why in the hell are there so many old men with deep pockets still racing in the category? in my opinion this is a huge turn off to the new kid just starting out on a shoe string budget who doesn’t have a chance in hell getting around a 60 year old guy with money.

Why haven’t these old guys graduated out of the category and moved on to SST-120, F1 - F2 etc.. You want talk about barriers I think this is a huge one! How does a new kid wanting to race CSR get around people like Craig Bowman?

Call me crazy but I honestly feel there should be some type of age limit that keeps old veteran guys out of classes like ASH. What a joke it must be for a new kid to try and beat Gary Lewis in ASH.

* This is not directed at you personally Brad I’m just using your post as a spring board to bounce this off.

[14J]

If Stock Outboard Racing is truly a entry level category why in the hell are there so many old men with deep pockets still racing in the category? in my opinion this is a huge turn off to the new kid just starting out on a shoe string budget who doesn’t have a chance in hell getting around a 60 year old guy with money.

Why haven’t these old guys graduated out of the category and moved on to SST-120, F1 - F2 etc.. You want talk about barriers I think this is a huge one! How does a new kid wanting to race CSR get around people like Craig Bowman?

Call me crazy but I honestly feel there should be some type of age limit that keeps old veteran guys out of classes like ASH. What a joke it must be for a new kid to try and beat Gary Lewis in ASH.

* This is not directed at you personally Brad I’m just using your post as a spring board to bounce this off.

While we're at it what purpose does the AX classes serve?

[B Walker]

Good points Dan,

I will probably take some heat here but I fully support the concept of a more involved class structure subdividing the same rig into multiple age groups.

I can say this because I reject the idea that Stock Outboard needs to cut classes to provide a show or an event. Shortening the race day is another discussion.

As long as I am dropping nukes today, how about re-setting kilo and course records annually.....but dropping it from being a criterion of Hall of Champions.

More records and more trophies....those are good things that will help to grow the sport.

BW

If your not growing, your dying

[Boatracer4fun]

If I could change a few rules, I'd require all drivers to wear some kind of neck restraint, a good helmet brace cost just fourty dollars, and it just make sense, hitting the water at our speeds can cause life threating damage. I would require all boats to carry ping pong paddles and require you to get off the course, if your propeller quites turning. How many races are stopped because a boat is on the course and is in harms way.

Good idea, but not practical in a kneeler. Would be very tough driving the boat with a head restraint. Paddles are required in PRO.

At most local races, a driver in the water will most likely black flag that heat. At big events, if the driver signals he/she is okay, most of the time i have seen the race will continue.

[me-otch]

I would require all boats to carry ping pong paddles and require you to get off the course, if your propeller quites turning. How many races are stopped because a boat is on the course and is in harms way.

Not sure i agree with this,
for one if the boat blows over or wrecks that is just a projectile that could hit the driver or become another thing floating on the coarse for other boats to come in contact with, causing more damage,

and personally i would rather see the race black flagged rather than watching a broken down boat try and paddle their way out of the paths of other boats fighting for their spot...besides have you tried paddling a hydro on a windy day? you are pretty much at the mercy of the wind. and even if its not windy, you dont get anywhere fast.

[AndersonV21]

Mr. Walker,

I can assure you it was not a case of sensitivity and you did not offend me at all. I just feel like it was a poor choice of words. The words you chose, not involving any "reading into", state that if you want to be "part of a show" run PRO. I can't speak for everyone, but I know I could care less about being "part of a show" and more about good national level competition considering I am funding my racing hobby as are practically everyone in boat racing. I do not care to argue any further though.


All,

In my eyes the national caliber stock and mod drivers are not anywhere near "entry level racing". In fact I would be offended by such a comment. As far as I am concerned a good outboard driver is a good outboard driver and given good equipment can win in Stock, Mod or PRO. I have seen PRO drivers win Stock races, and Stock and Mod do the same in PRO. To put one of the three categories (although different animals tuning-wise) on a pedestal is wrong.

The point I am making is a thought out, national level best-of-the-best series would solve many problems i see/read on this forum. It could be easily done with stock and mod. It would bring back some ambition, giving something to work for as opposed to the broken high-point system as well as give new people something to work toward. Creating a separation between local and national guys really does help from being discouraged.

If you added this to a Sealed-302 class it would put the stock back into stock. It is easy to do, easy to enforce. It would be a great place for the new drivers the racer schools are working toward picking up and coupled with boat could be packaged for around 5k brand new. Why wouldn't this be great to start on a local level where there are racer schools?! Worst case scenario the class doesn't pick up and the drivers run C or 20. (If I were a betting man I would put money on it growing into the toughest driving classes in the country...I wonder how hard Billy had to drive to run OSY in europe with all completely unmodified 302's?)

I could expand these ideas further, but who is actually listening anyways?

[jtower3941]

If I were King

We have been racing for ourselves for a lot of years. Limited spectators, Little money prizes, Some trophys. We need a race program to regenerate our sport. But nobody wants to bite the bullet and say what classes stay and what goes. Ok lets compermize.

Sat. Race schedule: All classes, Club racing, 2 heats or 1 elims. and 1 final or 3 heat formatt per class unless elims. Less than 5 boat will be conbined with another class. National classes will run also.

Sunday race schedule:

Have SORC/APBA create two runabout and two hydro national classes, now, with the eye to expand in years to come.

Example Merc corn popper, hydro/runabout. 2 person D hydro and runabout. Hope these does not upset anybody, LOL. Just a suggestion. These classes were suggested as not to upset anybody or real classes. We can create these national classes by the most popular and most registration. Something we can sell to the public and sponcers on a Sunday race. If you have nothing to sell that is what you will get in return. nothing.

Sun. Race schedule: Those classes run on saterday with 5 registered in that class, or more will run Sun morning. So if you are going to get into racing or continue. Think about classes that have 5 for club racing or the best of all national classes

At 1PM we have the national classes along with a local class.

On Saterday or Sunday or both days, we should have a class that anybody can purchase at the local marine store and run today and fish tomorrow. Get new people interested in racing. Local class will be for local racers as well as a few traveling racers in that class. Local flavor is good for advertising.

Having this format will let everybody run their club classes for ? years. But if you want to race with the intention of National points and recognition, Go for it. You want to race at club level, go for it. Realize that as the national classes will grow as more current racers and new racers will buy into national class

My 2 cents worth
Jim Tower

[B Walker]

I could expand these ideas further, but who is actually listening anyways?

Click on the Currently Active Users button top left and you can see who is lurking and see what thread they are reading.

I can assure you and everyone else here that APBA leadership is reading this and paying very close attention.

When Dan ran this site he would post viewing stats on really hot topics. Maybe Teresa could do the same?

Once again it seems I have offended you and I apologise. It never occurred to me anyone would be offended by referring to Stock and Modified Outboard as entry level racing. If you don't think SO and Mod are entry level racing, what is the entry level division in APBA?

Now if Ed will just respond to Hydrioid it could get really interesting.

Brad Walker

If the sport is not growing, it is dying

[mdaspit]

Wow, I can not even figure out what the hell is going on here anymore.

Ed H. put this thread on here to make a point, and he has made it in spades as far as I'm concerned.

It goes something like this..."Allright guys, if you're unhappy with the way things are going, and you think it can be done better, then what would you do if you were running things?"

I think the verdict is in, because what I am seeing here is
disfunction.

How is someone supposed to manage this?... chaos.

This problem is too big... and to try and solve it, it has to be broken down into actionable pieces.

I may be new to boat racing, but I'm not new to life.

This is like a bad marriage.

And if you want to save it, then it will have to be one step at a time, solve one smaller problem at a time, and then move on to another.

Then, maybe after a few years we can look back and see some result...

But not like this.

[AndersonV21]

Seriously?!

Mr. Walker,

Still not offending me. I race PRO. Hahaha

Really though. I offered a couple constructive new ideas that have yet to be discussed anywhere on Hydroracer. (The entry level comment was a springboard into the first idea, maybe you aren't reading all of my post?)

Please put the entire post together rather than pick and choose. I am attempting to be productive, with no agenda, and without any blame on the leadership. Please do the same.

I really would like to hear what others think about about National level races/series and a sealed engine class? Especially from guys that are running all of the racing schools like Dean, Kev, Paul N and the MRC guys working to get new people in the sport.

[ricochet112]

Good idea, but not practical in a kneeler. Would be very tough driving the boat with a head restraint. Paddles are required in PRO.

At most local races, a driver in the water will most likely black flag that heat. At big events, if the driver signals he/she is okay, most of the time i have seen the race will continue.

I don't want to go too off topic but you have a couple of errors in your post. Neck restaints are available at Security Race Products that are used in Stock Mod and PRO, they are not the HANS type. They now have the attatching point made into the life jacket, no need for a body strap. Scroll to botton of page.
http://www.securityrace.com/drivereq...estraints.html

Way too many variables about a driver in the water to generalize about it.

What would I do if I were King;
UIM rules, jetty starts, 8-10 classes, paid officials.

[B Walker]

Jim said

Sat. Race schedule: All classes, Club racing, 2 heats or 1 elims. and 1 final or 3 heat formatt per class unless elims. Less than 5 boat will be conbined with another class. National classes will run also.

All this is currently possible within the current rules now and only a few places have even tried it.

Have SORC/APBA create two runabout and two hydro national classes, now, with the eye to expand in years to come.

This too can be done at the club level but I can only imagine the howls of protest from drivers that have to chose between multiple rigs that fit into the same grouping. Actually those howls of protest would not be heard over the shrieking from the judges stand from the scoring nightmare. Then there is the hit in revenue the club will take because people that had to choose between multiple rigs in the same grouping wont be paying as much in entry fees.

I dont think multiple classes will be able to be run at the same time until an electronic scoring system is adopted.

BW