If I Were King I'd....

[Raymond]

To those that ‘guff’ at the idea of 50/50 raffles or T-shirt sales I will give you this: It’s not the end all solution but it will put a few more boats worth or revenue into the club’s event cash purse.

Did I hear somebody say they used 50/50’s to fund tow money? Why not? How you qualify and disperse the funds is a clubs prerogative to manage but…why not? I think that is a fantastic application of a simple no brainier fund raiser. Who cares who is buying the tickets; revenue is revenue.

So what does this have to do with the solution to dwindling membership and growth? Nothing directly! But it may just buy some time…very valuable time. It may just be the recipe that helps sustain a club’s operations until we as a sport can solve the greater problems that plague us.

We need to think outside the box. Don’t give up people because when you do…it will be over.

[Ron Hill]

Why Would You Shut Up???

Sorry dudes...I'll shut up.

Your posts are well thought out. You make more sense than the rest of us.

[mdaspit]

Sorry dudes...I'll shut up.

[Ron Hill]

If I was King I would change the races to the famous Le Mans start, run five "classes" per day (J, 2-cyl. Hydro, 2-cyl. Runabout, 4-cyl. Hydro, 4-cyl. Runabout), and increase heat length to 15 laps. Boat design would gradually change and we would end up with boats that can run in all sorts of water, opening up more great race sites.

I would not put in a right-hand turn, though.

And for marketability, I'd require everyone to use a fresh new pillowcase! : )

Seems to me Mikey, you were listening to me talk to Major Bob at the Miami Boats Show.

I wonder how popular pro football would be if a game started at 7:00 A.m. and lasted until dark, and then restarted the next day to finish the game???

Your post is the best one I've seen.....Of course, if your uncle Jim were around, I'd just call him and ask him what we should do and he'd have known.

If APBA offered a five hour REDUCED RATE insurance package, this could be done. APBA's current insurance is charged by the event. I told Gloria at APBA, My races was starting January 1 and going all year....just going to have different stages. Of course, she didn't answer!!!

Hey, Mikey, this is your dad driving OMC's DeSilva wing, March 1968. This race was for 9 Hours. Your dad and I got third OUTBOARD 20th overall...Your dad liked this Wing a lot better than the DeSilva runabout, of my dad's that he ran in Havasu, 1967...

ADD:

Quick question...boat weights? Engine rules? Or do you plan to let me make the rules?

[raceright]

Ok Brad, I hope you and Raceright are right, because if you are, then the fix should be easy.

Just run a few focus groups across the country, incorporate the findings, spend some money on communications and marketing, and that ought to do it... Just build it and they will come...Right?

And it might do something, budge the needle a little, maybe enough to keep it going for a while.

But I'll bet, deep down you believe that the real issue here is not "nuts and bolts". There is something else going on.

The Hay Day of boat racing was a phenomenon. Its nature not really understood. It wasn't branding, or packaging, there was something else at work there, as in all phenomenon.

Something that has more to do with the right time and the right place.

Something that you can't duplicate, or legislate, or re-position, or re-brand. Like trying to bring back Elvis.

I just think that it has more to do with the things we can't even articulate, much less try to fix, than we would all like to admit.

Everyone can point to the things that they think may make it easier to get new people involved, better for the spectators... renaming classes so that people understand them better, shorter programs, lack of programs, 3 boat races, available motors, etc. etc. the list goes on and on, and there may be some truth in all that, but...

At the end of the day Brad it isn't enough...Why?

Holly Shtttt Tex ya giving me a headache.
Why I stopped playng chess had to think to hard wowowowow

[raceright]

Is this the dooms day forum or just the ***** column .I am with some of you to many rules how many have we added since the hay days and has it helped or hurt. for one three races in one weekend just for a few point hungry racers is not good for the sport i would rather have one day of testing than two days of racing any time. and throwing some one out at the national for something that is not a speed advantage really sucks . yes i am talking about a ping pong paddle at the alky nationals why not a two hundred dollar fine and give the money to the patrol boat guys in instead of a disqualification as a option

yellow flag rule in place and never used OH WELL another useless rule

[david bryan]

Is this the dooms day forum or just the ***** column .I am with some of you to many rules how many have we added since the hay days and has it helped or hurt. for one three races in one weekend just for a few point hungry racers is not good for the sport i would rather have one day of testing than two days of racing any time. and throwing some one out at the national for something that is not a speed advantage really sucks . yes i am talking about a ping pong paddle at the alky nationals why not a two hundred dollar fine and give the money to the patrol boat guys in instead of a disqualification as a option

[QUINAULTRACING]

King for a day

RULE #1, If there is any lawyer with in the organization at any time the ONLY POSITION they can hold at anytime is corner judge on turn five ( turn five is a right hand turn only.

RULE #2 Ron Hill and his good, very good friend Erine Dawe run the whole ball wax. And keep it from melting (even in the very hot south).

Steve August QUINAULTRACING HO HO HO PS: I am back on my feet but not going very far very fast.

[B Walker]

Ok Brad, I hope you and Raceright are right, because if you are, then the fix should be easy.

Just run a few focus groups across the country, incorporate the findings, spend some money on communications and marketing, and that ought to do it... Just build it and they will come...Right?

And it might do something, budge the needle a little, maybe enough to keep it going for a while.

But I'll bet, deep down you believe that the real issue here is not "nuts and bolts". There is something else going on.

The Hay Day of boat racing was a phenomenon. Its nature not really understood. It wasn't branding, or packaging, there was something else at work there, as in all phenomenon.

Something that has more to do with the right time and the right place.

Something that you can't duplicate, or legislate, or re-position, or re-brand. Like trying to bring back Elvis.

I just think that it has more to do with the things we can't even articulate, much less try to fix, than we would all like to admit.

Everyone can point to the things that they think may make it easier to get new people involved, better for the spectators... renaming classes so that people understand them better, shorter programs, lack of programs, 3 boat races, available motors, etc. etc. the list goes on and on, and there may be some truth in all that, but...

At the end of the day Brad it isn't enough...Why?

Oh crap, your gonna make me think.

Give me 24 hours to crunch on that one....

BW

[mdaspit]

Ok Brad, I hope you and Raceright are right, because if you are, then the fix should be easy.

Just run a few focus groups across the country, incorporate the findings, spend some money on communications and marketing, and that ought to do it... Just build it and they will come...Right?

And it might do something, budge the needle a little, maybe enough to keep it going for a while.

But I'll bet, deep down you believe that the real issue here is not "nuts and bolts". There is something else going on.

The Hay Day of boat racing was a phenomenon. Its nature not really understood. It wasn't branding, or packaging, there was something else at work there, as in all phenomenon.

Something that has more to do with the right time and the right place.

Something that you can't duplicate, or legislate, or re-position, or re-brand. Like trying to bring back Elvis.

I just think that it has more to do with the things we can't even articulate, much less try to fix, than we would all like to admit.

Everyone can point to the things that they think may make it easier to get new people involved, better for the spectators... renaming classes so that people understand them better, shorter programs, lack of programs, 3 boat races, available motors, etc. etc. the list goes on and on, and there may be some truth in all that, but...

At the end of the day Brad it isn't enough...Why?

[sam]

Actually Stock membership has been in continual gradual decline since its peak around 1960. The same concerns were voiced in the mid 1960's by current racer's fathers and grandfathers as membership began to decline. Unless we are smarter than our ancestors, its something that will continue.

As some others have pointed out, there have been changes in our culture ... outboards & the speeds we run are now common place, not spectacular. In the 60's B Stock speed was greater than just about any pleasure boat; only a few people used outboards, now outboards were something that just about every grandfather and great grandfather used. Rivers and lakes are crowded and every homeowner knows the phone number of a fraidycat local politician scared that he will not get enough money or votes to keep his ego stoked with re-election.

With each economic recession since 1960, outboard racing has taken a major hit. This one is going to be a real hard one.

We should probably concentrate on membership retention and RACE SITE RETENTION for the next 4 or 5 years.

Is it time for a rule change moratorium?

[B Walker]

I just don't think it's going to change...Not in our lifetimes.

I think it will continue to decline untill it's just too difficult to produce races.

Some regions will last longer than others.

I don't think the problem is about rules, or classes, or motors, or costs, or anything that anyone can do anything about.

I don't think the problem is marketing or promotion....Sure, with good promotion a few new drivers can be added every year, but not in sufficient numbers.

And I doubt if the problem is about Ed Hearn, even though I don't know him. (This is intended to be funny)

I think that the problem is a changing zietgeist.

Americans have changed, and will continue to do so. The spirit of individualism, competitiveness, and personal achievement are not what they used to be.

The spirit that makes a man want to go through what it takes to build a boat, get his tools out, and make things happen, and then go out and compete, man to man (women accepted here) to put himself out there, to be willing to accept the outcome, and try again and again to measure himself and his accomplishment against others who are more like him than not...

Sure there will always be those few who will have it, but not in sufficient enough quantity to make a difference.

As a culture, we don't view individual achievement, competition, self reliance, as we once did.

There is a certain kind of animalness (if there is such a word), that is required to make a guy crave doing this kind of thing. It's no different than two stud horses in the wild testing each other, and doing battle to determine who should win the band of mares.

It is being bred out of us, public schools, not enough men teaching young men, a politically correct state of mind that believes everyone is a winner, nobody loses, or fails...

The individual is no longer held in high esteem, and so as a result, those activities that require a high degree of individualism, will go away.

Untill, the crap hits the fan one day, and then only the survivors will survive, then the zietgeist will change yet again.

Now this is the kind of big picture thinking I am talkin' about!

Well done, Mark

There are 310,000,000 people in the USA and I dont think the change from individual identity to a group identity has reduced the number of people we can draw from as future members significantly. Not with only 480 Stock Outboard members.

BW

[raceright]

I just don't think it's going to change...Not in our lifetimes.

I think it will continue to decline untill it's just too difficult to produce races.

Some regions will last longer than others.

I don't think the problem is about rules, or classes, or motors, or costs, or anything that anyone can do anything about.

I don't think the problem is marketing or promotion....Sure, with good promotion a few new drivers can be added every year, but not in sufficient numbers.

And I doubt if the problem is about Ed Hearn, even though I don't know him. (This is intended to be funny)

I think that the problem is a changing zietgeist.

Americans have changed, and will continue to do so. The spirit of individualism, competitiveness, and personal achievement are not what they used to be.

The spirit that makes a man want to go through what it takes to build a boat, get his tools out, and make things happen, and then go out and compete, man to man (women accepted here) to put himself out there, to be willing to accept the outcome, and try again and again to measure himself and his accomplishment against others who are more like him than not...

Sure there will always be those few who will have it, but not in sufficient enough quantity to make a difference.

As a culture, we don't view individual achievement, competition, self reliance, as we once did.

There is a certain kind of animalness (if there is such a word), that is required to make a guy crave doing this kind of thing. It's no different than two stud horses in the wild testing each other, and doing battle to determine who should win the band of mares.

It is being bred out of us, public schools, not enough men teaching young men, a politically correct state of mind that believes everyone is a winner, nobody loses, or fails...

The individual is no longer held in high esteem, and so as a result, those activities that require a high degree of individualism, will go away.

Untill, the crap hits the fan one day, and then only the survivors will survive, then the zietgeist will change yet again.

Na ain't buying it just Zietgeist are fools who listen to the so called educated ash---s.
The American spirit of competition will rise again and the kids will get tired of the computer games once we clean house in the schools and this has already begun. N.H. fired a bunch of union teachers and now even N. Y.
is taking a long hard look at the same. Hang on though it is going to be a ruff ride.

[mdaspit]

I just don't think it's going to change...Not in our lifetimes.

I think it will continue to decline untill it's just too difficult to produce races.

Some regions will last longer than others.

I don't think the problem is about rules, or classes, or motors, or costs, or anything that anyone can do anything about.

I don't think the problem is marketing or promotion....Sure, with good promotion a few new drivers can be added every year, but not in sufficient numbers.

And I doubt if the problem is about Ed Hearn, even though I don't know him. (This is intended to be funny)

I think that the problem is a changing zietgeist.

Americans have changed, and will continue to do so. The spirit of individualism, competitiveness, and personal achievement are not what they used to be.

The spirit that makes a man want to go through what it takes to build a boat, get his tools out, and make things happen, and then go out and compete, man to man (women accepted here) to put himself out there, to be willing to accept the outcome, and try again and again to measure himself and his accomplishment against others who are more like him than not...

Sure there will always be those few who will have it, but not in sufficient enough quantity to make a difference.

As a culture, we don't view individual achievement, competition, self reliance, as we once did.

There is a certain kind of animalness (if there is such a word), that is required to make a guy crave doing this kind of thing. It's no different than two stud horses in the wild testing each other, and doing battle to determine who should win the band of mares.

It is being bred out of us, public schools, not enough men teaching young men, a politically correct state of mind that believes everyone is a winner, nobody loses, or fails...

The individual is no longer held in high esteem, and so as a result, those activities that require a high degree of individualism, will go away.

Untill, the crap hits the fan one day, and then only the survivors will survive, then the zietgeist will change yet again.

[raceright]

It is suprising to me how many suggestions here address symptoms of the problem (if there is one) and not the underlying reasons for the mess the sport is in (if it is in a mess). Also, I cant believe there are people that actually think everything is OK in the sport.

Start growing the sport and most of the rest of these problems fix themselves.

This is an all volunteer do-it-yourself sport. If your waiting for HQ to do something your going to be waiting a very long time. There is tremendous flexibility in the rules at the local level to put on an event practically any way you want.

You want le mans starts....DO IT NOW!
You want more heats or laps....DO IT NOW!
You want promotion....DO IT YOURSELF!
You want a rulebook....PRINT IT YOURSELF!
Free entry fees for new drivers....DO IT NOW!
You want a Dash for Cash...DO IT NOW!

What do all these suggestions have in common? They all serve the current racers and would have little to no effect on growth.

APBA has been bleeding members one at a time for 35 years. Until the bleeding is stopped nothing else we do really matters. We have gone from a peak membership in 1974 of just under 5ooo members to about 480 in 2010 with further declines in membership projected in 2011.

Most of the country cannot put on a financially sustainable race. The southeast, northeast, and west coasts have "anchor" races that have significant numbers of out of region racers that finance the rest of their races that run in the red.

But still people are in denial that there is a problem.

BW

"If your not growing, your dying"

Billie
I agree with most of what you say here.
But as stockoutboard is harder and harder to enter there numbers will decline.

Much as Pro's numbers have decreased ,but I believe pro's numbers have reached a level that will be sustained for many years to come.
Great many races are financed by the financialy luckier team owners and this will continue as long as need be.
We have reached a point in Pro where most new drivers are grand childern and children,friends of fellow racers,uncles and aunts and so on.

So because of the type of entry required to race at the Pro level it is more difficult to get involved unless someone you know already is.
This going to be stocks future unless something is done. All boatracing's numbers will decrease to a know someone to do it level if we stay on the same course we have been on since ya can't buy a Merc off the shelf.