State Boat Registration

[jtower3941]

Hi Scott:
The Fish & Game Commission has written me a letter about the Dam Race in June. The letter states that state registrations will be checked. Last year the officer said it is necessary. We had stated that APBA national registration during the sanction hours made it not necessary for us to have state registration. Officer did not except this explaination but said he would not shut us down. Talked to Mark Weber about this and he said they would discuss this at the next meeting.

What is the answer. Are we exempt from state reg. during the APBA Event. If so we need paper work in hand to present to officer before the event. Racing is getting harder with NJ Pa marine police. As you know this was the first race in White Haven and got the attention of Fish & Boating. Fist time that officer had this problem. Did not know any exemption and stated this is in my book that your need registration.

Sorry to bring this problem.

Jim Tower 118P

[14J]

Here we go again.

My understanding of N.J. law is that a vessel designated for racing which is less than 12' in lenght is exempt from registration. Of course the operator still needs a boater safety certificate.

So how would this be viewed by the Keystone state?


P.S. Anyone want to buy some better than average C equipment? I think it's time to enjoy my pool.

[sam]

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...3cfr173.13.htm

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 33, Volume 2]
[Revised as of July 1, 2004]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 33CFR173.13]

[Page 830]

TITLE 33--NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS

CHAPTER I--COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY (CONTINUED)

PART 173_VESSEL NUMBERING AND CASUALTY AND ACCIDENT REPORTING
--Table of Contents

Subpart B_Numbering

Sec. 173.13 Exemptions.

Where the Coast Guard issues numbers, the following classes of
vessels are exempt, under Section 12303 of Title 46, United States Code,
from the numbering provisions of Sections 12301 and 12302 of Title 46,
United States Code, and this part:
(a) A vessel that is used exclusively for racing.
(b) A vessel equipped with propulsion machinery of less than 10
horsepower that:
(1) Is owned by the owner of a vessel for which a valid certificate
of number has been issued;
(2) Displays the number of that numbered vessel followed by the
suffix ``1'' in the manner prescribed in Sec. 173.27; and
(3) Is used as a tender for direct transportation between that
vessel and the shore and for no other purpose.
====================================

Let me admit that I was not smart enough to find this myself; a friend of mine who used to be a sergeant in the MD DNR police found it for me when I was fighting county zoning over keeping race boats at my house

[DougMc]

I don't know about your state; however, I do know about Florida as I have researched the law indepth as did a high ranking member of the Florida Legislature.

In Florida, ALL boats must be titled and registered, EVEN those competing in a sanctioned regatta, AND you must display your registration sticker on your boat during a race. You do not need to display the numbers during a race, but you must during testing when not at a regata.
What does this mean if you race in Florida? Register and title your hydro or runabout. It is simple and quick.

(An added benifit is you can prove you own your boat. Now most cannot prove ownership. Most racers would have a hard time proving to a law enforcement officer that they actually own a boat they claim to own.)

Don't fight the system because you will lose. I believe the question is not is it mean or nasty of officer friendly to enforce the law. The question is is an individual racer not in compliance with the law and making it hard on himself, other racers and race organizers.

With that in mind, we should all register our boats. Both of my boats are titled, registered and stickers are dislayed. It is easy to do and your problem is solved. As Nike says, "Just Do It!"

[sam]

I tried to register my race boats in MD and they told me I couldn't because they considered them illegal because they were not titled at time of construction.

I have no idea how I am going to work around this.

[John Sherlock]

Here we go again.

My understanding of N.J. law is that a vessel designated for racing which is less than 12' in lenght is exempt from registration. Of course the operator still needs a boater safety certificate.

So how would this be viewed by the Keystone state?


P.S. Anyone want to buy some better than average C equipment? I think it's time to enjoy my pool.

Been wanting to get back into racing, BUT, my pool is also looking better and better.
How do we get people interested when racing has become such a pain in the ***.
Can't do this, can't do that, you can't wear that, you must wear this, you can't run that, you must run this, next year you will need this but for this year, OK, gas at the pump is no good, OH maybe it is, cells in this class, no cells in that, state numbers are needed but maybe not, safe boating course, yes, no, racing for 25 years, does that count,,,,,,,,,,

Afraid to leave the house, may need brakes on the trailer,,, Can I put gas in this can, its plastic, does it have to be red, can I have it in my pit, how many fire extinguishers is it I need,,,, before you know it I will need a helmet for everyone on my crew,,, how did I ever get to be 63 never wearing a helmet riding my bike,,,, N.J. is not the only State trying to over protect me !! Full face, no full face, proper foot wear, not proper,,,,

[John Sherlock]

I tried to register my race boats in MD and they told me I couldn't because they considered them illegal because they were not titled at time of construction.

I have no idea how I am going to work around this.

and if you get it registered you can be boarded and you better have all the proper equipment with you !!

[Dave M]

Best Post Yet

Been wanting to get back into racing, BUT, my pool is also looking better and better.
How do we get people interested when racing has become such a pain in the ***.
Can't do this, can't do that, you can't wear that, you must wear this, you can't run that, you must run this, next year you will need this but for this year, OK, gas at the pump is no good, OH maybe it is, cells in this class, no cells in that, state numbers are needed but maybe not, safe boating course, yes, no, racing for 25 years, does that count,,,,,,,,,,

Afraid to leave the house, may need brakes on the trailer,,, Can I put gas in this can, its plastic, does it have to be red, can I have it in my pit, how many fire extinguishers is it I need,,,, before you know it I will need a helmet for everyone on my crew,,, how did I ever get to be 63 never wearing a helmet riding my bike,,,, N.J. is not the only State trying to over protect me !! Full face, no full face, proper foot wear, not proper,,,,

John,

That is the best post ever. A lot of common sense lacking in the rules category.......... thanks. Don't forget to hire a lawyer to interpret the rule book for you.

[John Sherlock]

I don't know about your state; however, I do know about Florida as I have researched the law indepth as did a high ranking member of the Florida Legislature.

In Florida, ALL boats must be titled and registered, EVEN those competing in a sanctioned regatta, AND you must display your registration sticker on your boat during a race. You do not need to display the numbers during a race, but you must during testing when not at a regata.
What does this mean if you race in Florida? Register and title your hydro or runabout. It is simple and quick.

(An added benifit is you can prove you own your boat. Now most cannot prove ownership. Most racers would have a hard time proving to a law enforcement officer that they actually own a boat they claim to own.)

Don't fight the system because you will lose. I believe the question is not is it mean or nasty of officer friendly to enforce the law. The question is is an individual racer not in compliance with the law and making it hard on himself, other racers and race organizers.

With that in mind, we should all register our boats. Both of my boats are titled, registered and stickers are dislayed. It is easy to do and your problem is solved. As Nike says, "Just Do It!"

SORRY Doug, it is not all that easy! The APBA number at one time, being on your boat and registered with the APBA did all this. Have you been inspected by the Coast Guard for all your proper equipment now that you have your numbers on your hull, is your vessel overpowered, is your life jacket CG approved?

[HRTV]

Been wanting to get back into racing, BUT, my pool is also looking better and better.
How do we get people interested when racing has become such a pain in the ***.
Can't do this, can't do that, you can't wear that, you must wear this, you can't run that, you must run this, next year you will need this but for this year, OK, gas at the pump is no good, OH maybe it is, cells in this class, no cells in that, state numbers are needed but maybe not, safe boating course, yes, no, racing for 25 years, does that count,,,,,,,,,,

Afraid to leave the house, may need brakes on the trailer,,, Can I put gas in this can, its plastic, does it have to be red, can I have it in my pit, how many fire extinguishers is it I need,,,, before you know it I will need a helmet for everyone on my crew,,, how did I ever get to be 63 never wearing a helmet riding my bike,,,, N.J. is not the only State trying to over protect me !! Full face, no full face, proper foot wear, not proper,,,,

I have to agree with John, I see this getting out of control real fast! all jokes aside what's next? horns and lights on all race boats in NJ & PA? and no I'm not joking.

[John Sherlock]

I tried to register my race boats in MD and they told me I couldn't because they considered them illegal because they were not titled at time of construction.

I have no idea how I am going to work around this.

At one time home made worked with boats, trailers etc, but you had to have them inspected and a race boat will not pass.

[Sonny]

I cant belive what I see happening to our sport. I cant help but think that these events are a profit soarce for these small towns. And that is were the attention needs to be focused. The Apba needs to stand tall and say we all stay or we all go. I lived in N.J. for a few years and was at the superboat races from Atlantic city to Manhatten, and the inboard races in Mays landing. There is an APBA event almost every weekend in these states, I saw people with my own eyes spending money. You can bet your ass that if we were good for a few million in revenue they would welcome us with open arms and we wouldnt have any of these problems. Truth be told..the state of nj, and pa for that matter needs the apba one hell of a lot more than the APBA needs them. There is strenght in numbers. It needs to be made clear to these states that the bull**** is over. You can allow APBA events, or your neighboring state can count on the money you could have made. And as far as the APBA is concerned, if you cant find anyone with a set of balls overthere to get your point across, you let me know and I'll do it for you. Step up to the pump and do your job.

[ram95]

Our legislators, urged on by constituents and perhaps the desire to be re-elected, have managed to get these rules into place. The light-plane (general aviation) community continually faces similar kinds of ill-thought-out and costly regulations. The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA), led by past president Phil Boyer, sat down with the bureaucrats to make sure "General Aviation" and the 'little guy' didn't get trampled on. He was extremely successful. He established AOPA as an organization that was part of the 'solution' and not part of the problem.

Our own A P B A is the only real avenue we have to make our concerns heard. In defense of APBA leadership, I think we have all been relying too long on what we feel is common sense. Trouble is, what may seem like common sense to one person, seems like total stupidity to another. It would seem like APBA needs to be on a first name basis with DOT, USCG, EPA, CARB, and other governing bodies which the States must consult when passing laws having an impact on boat racing. We are, after all, a FAMILY ORIENTED SPORT. Otherwise, I can see a Karting boom.

[3rd Chance]

No Karts....

I'm going to go hang out at Troy's pool...

[DougMc]

SORRY Doug, it is not all that easy! The APBA number at one time, being on your boat and registered with the APBA did all this. Have you been inspected by the Coast Guard for all your proper equipment now that you have your numbers on your hull, is your vessel overpowered, is your life jacket CG approved?

It is that easy in my opinion. I researched this very issue indepth three years ago as did the Chairman of the Florida House of Representative's State Administration Council.

As for the life jacket when testing at a non sanctioned event, I throw a cheap $8 or so Walmart orange life jacket up front under the windshield and yes it has a $2 whistle. This is good enough to comply with the laws. Our racing life jackets are only exempt during an APBA sacnctioned regatta. I have a copy of the letter the Coast Guard sent to the APBA giving the exemption.

As for being over powered, it is a home made vessel and there is not a problem as it hasn't been evaluated and there is no way to make a decision (perhaps that is the next question for them to ask, but as of now it is not a problem). Open cockpits do not need a fire extingusher as there is no where for fumes to build up. No need for running lights as I am not running at night. Now I might be guilty of not having an anchor ...

(Even with my passing the safety inspection given the numerous times I launched at Florida State University's Lake Bradford (ten minutes from my house), they still invited me not to come back as they felt my boat was not compatible with the canoeing, kayaking and sailing on the small lake. They felt it was a matter of time before there was an incident with a canoe. Can they legally ban me? No, but it wasn't worth the fight to stay on the lake? No, just moved on to a new testing site.)

As most people's hydros and runabouts are home made vessels, all you need to do in Florida is go to your local tax collector, pay the title and registration fee and any taxes and you are good to go. As the taxes were most likely paid on the wood when the wood was purchased by you or the boat builder there may not even be any tax due. For example, I have seen photos on this website of the new AXSH Howie built for his daughter. Since it has not yet been on Florida waters and he paid taxes on the wood when he bought the wood, all he has to do is go the the Brevard County tax collector and pay the title and registration fee. He will most likely get the registration sticker on the spot and the title in the mail in a few weeks. Check with your local county tax collector's office and you may find that I am correct. The work, labor to build the boat, by the carpenter/boat builder is most likely a service and most services in Florida are not taxed and are most likely claimed as income on the carpenter/boat builder's federal taxes. (I'm not a CPA so check with your CPA for a true reading of Florida tax law.)

The Florida Fish & Wildlife (FWCC - (888) 404-3922) is the state agency to speak with in Florida, as I run on lakes not oceans or intercostal waterways, if you want to inquire about boating laws or ask your local representatives to research it for your in other states. Call your local tax collector about registering your home made vessel and you may be surprised how easy it is to do.

Now if it is the fees charged, and legwork it takes, to register are the issue then that is another matter. The system is not going to change for us and all three sanctioning bodies are not big enough or savvy enough to lobby state legislatures or local governments to make effective changes in the laws. We must work with the laws in each state and city and the problems are resolved.

Don't get fustrated and quit. Work with the system, test, race, have fun and relax by your pool.