Pro Hydro Boat Design - USA vs Europe

[epugh66]

Twenty years ago, Dieter said it was apples to oranges, I suspect that may still be true. If anything, the euro boats may have advanced more than USA spec boats.

What i'm stumbling through is, a properly set up Mostes/Dickfors etc. will perform very well at Constantine etc. The same boat will do OK at Depue, but would probably not win.

On the other hand, I dont think a USA spec boat would do very well at Brodenbach, Stewartby or Boretto.

Europeans boats are sliders and USA spec boats are trackers.

Just my opinion.

[Corin_Huke]

Twenty years ago, Dieter said it was apples to oranges, I suspect that may still be true. If anything, the euro boats may have advanced more than USA spec boats.

What i'm stumbling through is, a properly set up Mostes/Dickfors etc. will perform very well at Constantine etc. The same boat will do OK at Depue, but would probably not win.

On the other hand, I dont think a USA spec boat would do very well at Brodenbach, Stewartby or Boretto.

Europeans boats are sliders and USA spec boats are trackers.

Just my opinion.

You're spot on Eric, difficult to compare the two given the different style of racing either side of the pond. Interesting to hear your thoughts as to how european boats would fair on the US circuits. I guess the results of various world championships over the years is an indicator - my memory is not so good now, but I can recall Moreno Fresalone (Italy) winning the world 0-250 in 1993 at Lakeland, also I'm sure that Giuseppe Rossi had good results in 0-350 and more recently, Marian Jung (Slovakia) was third in the 0-125. You guys will probably remember others

One other point to make is that the kneeler design of boats is practically non existant in Europe. Okay, there are a few in OSY club racing, but at international level, OSY and the hydro classes are ALL prop riders. The last time I recall seeing a competitive kneeler was probably the time Gary (Pugh) last raced in Europe

There have been some very successful kneelers and drivers over the years in Europe - Eric, can you remember Christian Steineder's OB Danisch? Now, that was a kneeler!!! - have you any pics of it Eric?

[epugh66]

Before Lakeland '93 there was Ypsilanti(sp) MI in '87. I think Maurizio Darai won there, but I recall somesort of shenanigans being played out with the rule book...a little fuzzy. At Lakeland, Dan Kirts was the 250 front runner, but didnt he have to withdraw or DQ because the boat left park ferme for repairs? How in the hell are we suposed to be able to understand rules if we dont speak french?

That '84 350cc boat of Gary's saw a lot of hard races. He actually won a heat that weekend(PIC 1). I dont remember if it was a qualifier or a final. That was when all european boats were either Danisch or copies, easy pickens. It ran there, Boretto, Berlin-Tegal, Berlin-Oberhavel and Milano. Pete Nydahl used it in '89? in either a 500cc or 700cc(PIC 2). It never recovered. Somewhere in Berlin rest the ashes and someone has a complete set of vintage '84 USA spec hardware.

I've got a Steineder pic(PIC 3), but its one someone else posted.

[DougMc]

Yes Erik, I think that was Berlin-Oberhavel in 1989. Now I know why the name Pete Nydal is so familar to me.

[Corin_Huke]

Before Lakeland '93 there was Ypsilanti(sp) MI in '87. I think Maurizio Darai won there, but I recall somesort of shenanigans being played out with the rule book...a little fuzzy. At Lakeland, Dan Kirts was the 250 front runner, but didnt he have to withdraw or DQ because the boat left park ferme for repairs? How in the hell are we suposed to be able to understand rules if we dont speak french?

Italians and shenanigans with the rule book!!!??? - wash your mouth out with soap Eric. You should know that the Italians have their own version of the UIM rule book

And what's this about not being able to understand the rules because they are in French........Eric, the rules have always been in English!!! Now, if you need any help with them.....

It all boils down to knowing when they are gong to work in your favour and when they are not. Hell, you guys are pretty good at interpreting the rules too - Lakeland 1993, Saturday morning, all the American drivers who did not qualify for the USA team, were lining up to apply for Mexican, Canadian, and licences from other countries so that they could race. Like I said, it's all about interpreting the rules in your favour.......

[Ralph Donald]

Pictures

Hey Eric, Do you know where and when the picture of the jetty start was made. The number 20 is my boat that I used in Europe for eight years, the last time at the WC 500 in Brandenburg in 1992. Sometimes Hans would let other MRC club members use it, so I can't tell if that is me in the picture.

[epugh66]

Ralph,
I think that pic came from Pete so I dont know for sure where it is. The pic info said '89. Doug may be correct about Oberhavel, the concrete jetty looks familiar.

[jsilvestri]

In the second picture attached above, who and how are the boats being lifted out of the water?

[Composite Specialties]

Lifted

They are lifted by the pipes or expansion chambers.

[jsilvestri]

Thanks Marc.

[Brian10s]

Great Thread

I think this is a great thread and would love to see more pics of your Euro boats: tops and the bottoms. My Dad and I were talking about the differences on the boat bottoms this weekend and I was showing him the pics in this thread. It is great to see what the otherside is doing and why.

[epugh66]

As Marc said, one crew member lifts by the pipes. The other crew member pulls the rope. Both watch the flag or lights. As soon as there is movement, rope man man pulls. If the engine does not start on the first compression stroke..well.... The starts are really exciting and nerve wracking. Stateside, OPC uses the same method sts just not as exciting because you dont have 20 engines being warmed up at max rpms prior to the start.

Back on topic....hmmmwhat was the topic...boat design. For historys sake. I think the Italian builder, Popoli, perhaps made the first advance in awhile with the inner sponson. The first we saw it was 1985.

[Steve Johnson]

Euro wood

Any use for some of this tech here? didn't Bud GAnn build some like this?
Rough river courses,maybe.

[Corin_Huke]

Back on topic....hmmmwhat was the topic...boat design. For historys sake. I think the Italian builder, Popoli, perhaps made the first advance in awhile with the inner sponson. The first we saw it was 1985.

Actually Eric, the very first boats of this type were designed and built by a certain Renato Molinari (I'm reliably informed). Giancarlo Popoli then took over the baton and startered mass producing them across all the hydro classes 0-250, 0-350, 0-500. Going back to the late 80s and early 90s, Popoli boats were the ones to have if you wanted to win - all the 'greats' like Manfred Loth, Laszlo Volenter, Peer Krage. Guiliano Landini, Tizano Trombetta, etc used them

[Corin_Huke]

Jetty Starts

as Eric mentioned, the jetty starts that we use in Europe can be very exciting stuff......F500 start attached

Eric, recognise who the guy in pole position boat #68 is? And how about #22? - there a relative thing going on here, but no more clues....