ASH/AXSH/FAH 1/2-inch tuck rule discussion

[Haüenstein]

I just want to go back and clarify the new A tuck under rule. The 1-3/8" propshaft depth is measured at the back of the propshaft, as it always was. The front point on the centerline, basically the point of the bullet, can be no more than 1/2" above the back of the propshaft at the centerline. THERE IS NO 7/8" MEASUREMENT. The rule is the difference between the two. It was determined after much discussion, and a special committee meeting that setting a depth for the front of the geercase would not eliminate the ability to tuck the motor under.

What is the distance from the aft end of the propshaft to the point of the bullet? (Related: Over what distance do most of y'all measure trim?)

How will the new height rule be measured (ruler/measuring tape?)?

Is there a 1/2-inch trim-out rule, too?

MAH

[ryan_4z]

I believe the distance is about 11.5 inches. I think the standard measurment is over about an 18" length. That is average for most angle checkers. As far as how to measure it goes, that was not decided. I don't they wanted the lack of having a specific tool to keep them from making a safety rule. No, I believe the way it was worded was "...no more than 1/2" above...". So all of you running that extreme kick out are still legal.

[14-H]

Exact wording of rule...

is located below:

The tuck under rule has two parts.
>
> Part 1: The propshaft location, as measured at the aft end of the
> propshaft, and the planing surface shall be a minimum of 1-3/8"".
> Note: This is a rule change for ASH and FAH. It is not a rule change
> for AXSH.
>
> Part 2: The difference between the propshaft location and the
> planning surface, as measured at the aft end of the propshaft, and
> foremost end of the gear case and the planning surface, as measured at
> the split line of the gear case, shall not exceed 1/2".
>
> Note: This is a rule change for AXSH, ASH, and FAH.

[hydroplay]

We started playing with ASH two years ago with a J/AXS driver. We had a contemporary boat and decent props and were reasonably competitive and certainly safe. Then last year it was declared that somehow we were unsafe and all of a sudden we had to change things. Of course the wonderful commission had no testing or real data on their "safety" change. Well we complied adapted and were reasonably competitive again, including qualifing for the Nationals finals. Now they say we were unsafe again and are changing the rules again? How could we possibly still be unsafe when we complied with their new "safety" rule?

Well, I'll tell them to stick their ASH class. Change the rules once even though the safety issue was bogus and we adapted. Change it again because they weren't competent with their first rule change, see ya later. Good thing we sold our ASH and AXSR boats last fall. We were planning on some new ones but this is a great time to forget a class where the rules keep changing.

That is like C you later, we'll play with those Yamato classes where the inept administrators don't muck up the works every year.

According to the Stock Outboard Commission, all inboard hydros are dangerous because they run too much kick in.

[14-H]

Stick the ASH

Sam: Are you truly saying that you intended to campaign an ASH this year and now you're not going to? Does that also mean you will no longer be building boats for this class for others? Just wondering. Ed.

[Joe J]

I am confused

Ed, in part #1 you state that this is not for AXSH. In the note at the bottom you state this is for AXSH, ASH, and FAH.

Which one is correct?

Joe

is located below:

The tuck under rule has two parts.
>
> Part 1: The propshaft location, as measured at the aft end of the
> propshaft, and the planing surface shall be a minimum of 1-3/8"".
> Note: This is a rule change for ASH and FAH. It is not a rule change
> for AXSH.
>
> Part 2: The difference between the propshaft location and the
> planning surface, as measured at the aft end of the propshaft, and
> foremost end of the gear case and the planning surface, as measured at
> the split line of the gear case, shall not exceed 1/2".
>
> Note: This is a rule change for AXSH, ASH, and FAH.

[G Stillwill]

Joe I think what was ment by part one was that last year in ASH and FAH the measurement point changed to where the prop shaft went into the gear case and not the end of the prop shaft but the AXSH was always at the end of the prop shaft that is why it didnt change for the AXSH this year it was there to start with. Now all three classes measure from the same point at the rear of the propshaft and part two applies to all three to now.

[propnuts]

Justification

I know that when the original "safety" tuck rule was instituted there was nothing but anecdotal evidence to back up the need for the change. Was there anything to back up the claim of a "safety" issue this time? We have been running ASH for the last 5 years and I can honestly say that I have NEVER seen a crash that I thought was even remotely attributable to over tucking the motor. I'm with hydroplay, I'm getting sick of this crap. I can either modify my boat AGAIN to be competitive with the new rules, or say screw ASH. I'm really tempted to do the latter. How many times are we going to have to change the rules before the rule changers get competitive again? Tony

[Andrew 4CE]

I amazed at the lashing out against this... if a gear case is about 11" long as stated above... I think I would have to tuck my ASH more than double as much as I do now to break this rule!? (I don't think I'm a slouch out on the water) Maybe I'm missing something. I'll have to fire up the cad software...

In any case... I'll be out there in ASH and ASR. In my opinion there is too much *****ing in outboards... the race commision, or whoever it is, is d@mned if they do and d@mned if they don't for everything... Atleast they are trying something. I don't know how APBA rule changes work, but if you don't like them, elect someone else or run yourself. See first hand the crap they take and how easy it is.

[propnuts]

I don't know how APBA rule changes work, but if you don't like them, elect someone else or run yourself. See first hand the crap they take and how easy it is.

[/QUOTE]

Been there, done that.

[ryan_4z]

There was substantial evidence to show that there was a safety issue here. There were a number of letters written to Ed Hearn about this matter, three of which he read at the meeting. I also was there to give my first hand experience with driving an ASH with this setup. The result of which was a single boat, straightaway accident, testing, and the boat ran over me. My idea was to make this same rule except with a 3/8" restriction. I felt that gave ample leway for any traditional setup. Any boats with an above average amount of lift could add a few pounds of lead to the nose. With the rule adopted there is more than enough tolerance for anyone to run the set-up required for the boat, without going to the point that it is dangerous.

[bill boyes]

Ed, in part #1 you state that this is not for AXSH. In the note at the bottom you state this is for AXSH, ASH, and FAH.

Which one is correct?

Joe

Joe, The J committee governs the AXS class and we voted to adopt the stock rule for AXSH. We did NOT do so for JSH as we felt it was not needed because of the propellers.

[14-H]

... I can honestly say that I have NEVER seen a crash that I thought was even remotely attributable to over tucking the motor. ... Tony

Tony, we played a video of a very nasty one at the annual meeting.

[race4kaos]

what's good for some...

... may be bad for others.

All boats are different. Some run safe kicked way in, some don't. Changing the rule each year is not a good solution. Upsetting more drivers than preventing accidents I suspect... only time will tell.

Danny Keylard and Andy Anderson ran my boat for years before I had it with a level set-up. They both crashed it a lot. I ran it 3 years - kicked in 1" for the past 2. Never crashed... I'd say we were all 'competitive'.

Is it the set-up? Is it the boat? Is it the driver? Or is it the speed of the now plugged A motor? 57mph on less than a 9' boat in general isn't very safe for a beginers class...

Now your rule change will allow someone to run kicked in 13/16" and even HIGHER than last year... (58mph?). I had to come down almost 3/16" last year when keeping the 1" tuck and measuring to the split line instead of the back of the propshaft. Now you can go back up.

Gary Lewis was testing yesterday. R6 & R7 can't test before the LA race. And I'm sure the change will only help the people that voted for it - that's how SO works.

All because MAH didn't see the cross wake in the straight-a-way and someone caught it on tape. ; )

[csh12M]

The beach

You have no room to critize race4kaos, you were at the meeting and chose to go lay on the beach instead of giving your first hand accounts. So before you call out others for protecting an agenda maybe you should show up at the meeting!

Good luch racing OPC I know they never have any controversy

Later,
12M

Do I still have a place to stay next weekend....